Maybe if you added more information it will aid us in discovering why you DIDN'T like them...
Personally I love mine, they aren't very detailed but pair them with a small tweeter and they are very listenable for long periods of time. No fatigue whatsoever...
Did you add a super tweeter? What cabinet did you place them in? OB?
Personally I love mine, they aren't very detailed but pair them with a small tweeter and they are very listenable for long periods of time. No fatigue whatsoever...
Did you add a super tweeter? What cabinet did you place them in? OB?
No.
To me they have not enough highs
to be called even ' extended range '
I have ' woofers ' that do better.
Here's a far superior product with
~ the same T/S parameters :
http://reverenet.com/prod_detail.cfm?product_id=270
specs here:
http://fullrangedriver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1554
To me they have not enough highs
to be called even ' extended range '
I have ' woofers ' that do better.
Here's a far superior product with
~ the same T/S parameters :
http://reverenet.com/prod_detail.cfm?product_id=270
specs here:
http://fullrangedriver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1554
I did not like them either until i added a super tweeter. Maybe the best thing about the B20, besides price, is lack of listening fatigue. I listen to my pair all day at my office at low volumes and crank them up after hours - usually listening to some sort of jazz.
Every full range driver fanatic should own a pair IMO. Find a room that could use a medium sized pair of speakers and buy the SI amp and a cheap CD player or iPod to listen to. I think gychang has maxed out his B20's. I'd be inclined to call his pair B30's.
Every full range driver fanatic should own a pair IMO. Find a room that could use a medium sized pair of speakers and buy the SI amp and a cheap CD player or iPod to listen to. I think gychang has maxed out his B20's. I'd be inclined to call his pair B30's.
Hmmmm................
b20's stock ?
Yea, they stink..............
I put cotton batton behind whizzer, helped a bit...........
And I noticed it sounded much better in a qtc .577 (6ft3 box 1'x2'x3') with no stuffing than in the .707 qtc 1.75ft3 (both sealed). Less honk/echoy
I think the driver is thin (not too) so you have to design box around preventing backwave mixing with cone.
I added some eq from a 10 band equalizer, helped a bit also.....
But lost some detail..............out went the eq..........
I cut 1/4 of the whizzer off, it decreased some of the honky sound but needed more eq (think 8khz and 16khz sliders maxed)
crossed it at 5khz 24db to a piezo..........outstanding time aligned combination (the piezo resonated near 4.5khz so no spit present).
crossed it to a pair of 15's per side at 200-300hz, it sounded much worse in the mid/highs........... tough to get a cheap excellent sounding active crosover (thinking of marchand m46's though)..........
Remember you are paying $25 for an 8"
you have a bit of bass form 4 times the area of a 4" using of a ringing pipe out delayed rear horn bass.
You don't have to avoid most of your collection that'd make a 3" full range sound like it's gargling soup..............
There are a few threads on these lately...............
They NEED tweaks.......................
I'd imagine cutting the dust cap and installing is a big improvement.
Others mention some foam on inside of frame behind driver.
Others mention rope chaulk on outside of frame to dampen it.
Some even stiffen the driver with damar/puzzle coat (especially the whizzer).................
Now the main question is what is it worth ?
I think a $25 driver with 1 hour of labor (assuming free) that can compete with drivers over double the price is worth it.
Even crossing a tweeter at 10khz 6db would add sparkle and detail making the driver more fun.......... And the huge area far from normal crossovers would sound better than 6db or 24db (time/phase aligned) etc to me.
But I take the more difficult path.
I'm not impressed with someone building a good/great sounding speaker using $1,000 worth of parts.
Make a speaker that sounds 90% as good with 10% the cost, I'm impressed................
b20's stock ?
Yea, they stink..............
I put cotton batton behind whizzer, helped a bit...........
And I noticed it sounded much better in a qtc .577 (6ft3 box 1'x2'x3') with no stuffing than in the .707 qtc 1.75ft3 (both sealed). Less honk/echoy
I think the driver is thin (not too) so you have to design box around preventing backwave mixing with cone.
I added some eq from a 10 band equalizer, helped a bit also.....
But lost some detail..............out went the eq..........
I cut 1/4 of the whizzer off, it decreased some of the honky sound but needed more eq (think 8khz and 16khz sliders maxed)
crossed it at 5khz 24db to a piezo..........outstanding time aligned combination (the piezo resonated near 4.5khz so no spit present).
crossed it to a pair of 15's per side at 200-300hz, it sounded much worse in the mid/highs........... tough to get a cheap excellent sounding active crosover (thinking of marchand m46's though)..........
Remember you are paying $25 for an 8"
you have a bit of bass form 4 times the area of a 4" using of a ringing pipe out delayed rear horn bass.
You don't have to avoid most of your collection that'd make a 3" full range sound like it's gargling soup..............
There are a few threads on these lately...............
They NEED tweaks.......................
I'd imagine cutting the dust cap and installing is a big improvement.
Others mention some foam on inside of frame behind driver.
Others mention rope chaulk on outside of frame to dampen it.
Some even stiffen the driver with damar/puzzle coat (especially the whizzer).................
Now the main question is what is it worth ?
I think a $25 driver with 1 hour of labor (assuming free) that can compete with drivers over double the price is worth it.
Even crossing a tweeter at 10khz 6db would add sparkle and detail making the driver more fun.......... And the huge area far from normal crossovers would sound better than 6db or 24db (time/phase aligned) etc to me.
But I take the more difficult path.
I'm not impressed with someone building a good/great sounding speaker using $1,000 worth of parts.
Make a speaker that sounds 90% as good with 10% the cost, I'm impressed................
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1548791#post1548791
................................Blake
................................Blake
Yeah, the B20 needs the usual tweaks all cheap drivers need, but your 7 ft long pipe is too long for the driver's specs and it needs a ~3x greater CSA for it to 'breathe', so little wonder it had no 'snap' and no doubt very unbalanced presentation through the mids, especially with the bipole's ~6x too small CSA.
GM
GM
Hmm. As GM said, if you want to hear a driver perform well, you need to put it into a cab. (or whatever) that's actually optimised & voiced for the thing. Nobody would claim it's the greatest driver ever made, but it's $25 for pity's sake.
Whatever, it's a well known fact that 95% of drivers which have been built down to a price, respond well to modifications -basket / frame damping, phase plugs, some cone damping perhaps etc., and the stock B20 is a prime example, as most owners are aware. As it's really a WR rather than an FR unit, adding a nice tweeter, crossed in above the telephone band at say, 5 - 6KHz, will likely be the best possible mod. though.
Whatever, it's a well known fact that 95% of drivers which have been built down to a price, respond well to modifications -basket / frame damping, phase plugs, some cone damping perhaps etc., and the stock B20 is a prime example, as most owners are aware. As it's really a WR rather than an FR unit, adding a nice tweeter, crossed in above the telephone band at say, 5 - 6KHz, will likely be the best possible mod. though.
...
They aint perfect, but man, can they rock a shop.
I had this as my shop stereo for the longest time. Also, Lovecraft/Cain and Cain has some huge corner mounted B20 cabinets. Again. they sound kinda bad on an absolute scale, but when you are sanding and need some high tempo gritty music to set your pace to, there aint nothin like blasting electronica at rave volumes with all the bass there.
As another important feature, it could easily get loud enough to keep the music intelligible through hearing protection.
Yes, on an absolute scale, they have SERIOUS sonic issues that cannot be fully solved. But add a tweeter, running decently hot enough, phase plugs, and throw them into some transmission lines, and they are single drivers that can do rap easy shmeazy.
I always wanted to release a model that was a Tl, tweeter, and phase plugged version of the B20 as a basic "home" speaker that simply sounded good and warm. Something people could come home to. worn out from work, listen, and they would get a smile on their face. The Fostex stuff I made, even with all the bass you can get out of those little drivers sounded pretentious and "overly accurate" by comparison. Hard to talk with friends over the music, even when it is at low volumes. Feastrex? well, Feastrex drivers just sound "right." nuf said.
The other b20 based model I was to make was going to be a "ghetto blaster." 41hz.com amped, horn tweetered, with a large (12-15 inch rear firing) subwoofer in the cabinet for 50-60hz bass response. Tall and nasty loud.
For some people, and some situations its not about the raw accuracy all the time.
Few people truely hold the b20 in high regard as an "accurate" full range transducer. They have a distinctive color, like it or not. sound good, yes. Fun, perhaps.
All that said, I do understand your disenchantment with the b20. They are a great start into the single driver world, and serve some purposes well, but they are only the beginning of the road.
-Clark
They aint perfect, but man, can they rock a shop.
I had this as my shop stereo for the longest time. Also, Lovecraft/Cain and Cain has some huge corner mounted B20 cabinets. Again. they sound kinda bad on an absolute scale, but when you are sanding and need some high tempo gritty music to set your pace to, there aint nothin like blasting electronica at rave volumes with all the bass there.
As another important feature, it could easily get loud enough to keep the music intelligible through hearing protection.
Yes, on an absolute scale, they have SERIOUS sonic issues that cannot be fully solved. But add a tweeter, running decently hot enough, phase plugs, and throw them into some transmission lines, and they are single drivers that can do rap easy shmeazy.
I always wanted to release a model that was a Tl, tweeter, and phase plugged version of the B20 as a basic "home" speaker that simply sounded good and warm. Something people could come home to. worn out from work, listen, and they would get a smile on their face. The Fostex stuff I made, even with all the bass you can get out of those little drivers sounded pretentious and "overly accurate" by comparison. Hard to talk with friends over the music, even when it is at low volumes. Feastrex? well, Feastrex drivers just sound "right." nuf said.
The other b20 based model I was to make was going to be a "ghetto blaster." 41hz.com amped, horn tweetered, with a large (12-15 inch rear firing) subwoofer in the cabinet for 50-60hz bass response. Tall and nasty loud.
For some people, and some situations its not about the raw accuracy all the time.
Few people truely hold the b20 in high regard as an "accurate" full range transducer. They have a distinctive color, like it or not. sound good, yes. Fun, perhaps.
All that said, I do understand your disenchantment with the b20. They are a great start into the single driver world, and serve some purposes well, but they are only the beginning of the road.
-Clark
Attachments
hitsware said:>Poly over paper?
Built in puzzlecoat
Must be my ears. I prefer poly overall.
>Blah!!!!
Same to you
I wonder why, AER, Lowther, Feastrex, Fostex, PHY-HP, the new Seas Exotic, Visaton, Supravox etc, don't make us some nice poly cone drivers?
Maybe Mr.Teramoto can make you a special ''one off'' poly cone wonder for your listening pleasure, although I don't think he would go there for some reason
Dave
just to be the devils advocate, the micropure speakers use poly over paper driver. they still sound killer.
course, the micropure cabinets are what is to die for sonically. though the whole thing is pretty mindblowing still, poly withstanding. (I seem to remember that the layer is VERY thin).
course, the micropure cabinets are what is to die for sonically. though the whole thing is pretty mindblowing still, poly withstanding. (I seem to remember that the layer is VERY thin).
>I wonder why, AER, Lowther, Feastrex,
>Fostex, PHY-HP, the new Seas Exotic,
>Visaton, Supravox etc, don't make us
>some nice poly cone drivers?
That's why I said "it must be my ears"
I concede that since it is most popular
(in high end circles anyways) that paper
in best.
>Maybe Mr.Teramoto can make you a
>special ''one off'' poly cone wonder
>for your listening pleasure, although
>I don't think he would go there for
>some reason
If I decide to go high end I might try
a pair of these:
>Fostex, PHY-HP, the new Seas Exotic,
>Visaton, Supravox etc, don't make us
>some nice poly cone drivers?
That's why I said "it must be my ears"
I concede that since it is most popular
(in high end circles anyways) that paper
in best.
>Maybe Mr.Teramoto can make you a
>special ''one off'' poly cone wonder
>for your listening pleasure, although
>I don't think he would go there for
>some reason
If I decide to go high end I might try
a pair of these:
I firmly believe that whatever a person finds that they enjoy listening too, so be it.. Even if it's pure poly or Bo$e
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