desktop TL with 3" driver (with real bass)

Henkjan · 2012-09-04 11:45 pm

The desktop TL with the A5 does have less bass than this one.

here is the sim for the A5 desktop TL, in line with your listening impression, ~4dB lower output below 100Hz

Chaz H · 2013-01-10 6:20 am

Dear Henkjan, I made a quick pair of your upright desktop TL's out of paper board using the Tangband W3-926SDF. They're fantastic! I used my digital EQ to approximate 3db of baffle step and they sound great. I will definitely be making a pair out of real wood as soon as I can. Thanks so much for the awesome design!

mondogenerator · 2013-01-10 7:05 am

im surprised the A5 doesnt go as low as others, due to its Qts and despite the higher Fs. I trust the sims, just a little surprised. In nearly 9 litres WinISD shows extension to ~60hz, although ive not tried a box of that large a volume. Is there a clear reason why this so in the desktop TL?

Henkjan · 2013-01-10 1:30 pm

mondogenerator said:
im surprised the A5 doesnt go as low as others, due to its Qts and despite the higher Fs. I trust the sims, just a little surprised. In nearly 9 litres WinISD shows extension to ~60hz, although ive not tried a box of that large a volume. Is there a clear reason why this so in the desktop TL?

maybe one could make a TL design that enables it to go lower, but 60Hz is already pushing the limits of the A5 far beyond what Mark designed it for. The sim I showed for the A5 is in another enclosure as this one here

Chaz H · 2013-01-10 4:31 pm

Henkjan, I am fairly amazed at how good the bass is on this speaker, especially given that you have extended the bass to 1/2 the Fs of the driver. Do you think that a scaled-up version of the same design would work for larger drivers? I am trying to imagine how big this cabinet would have to be to be tuned to 35hz or even 30hz.

mondogenerator · 2013-01-10 4:52 pm

Henkjan thanks for the reply.

I was not criticising the TL in any way, i should add.

With the A5 i was shocked at the bass output in a simple tube experiment and the amount of EQ i was able to apply. Of course this was at modest levels but even so i was more concerned about thermal stress than the excursion limits at around ten watts or a little more.

xrk971 · 2013-01-10 5:56 pm

chazdrumzalot said:
Henkjan, I am fairly amazed at how good the bass is on this speaker, especially given that you have extended the bass to 1/2 the Fs of the driver. Do you think that a scaled-up version of the same design would work for larger drivers? I am trying to imagine how big this cabinet would have to be to be tuned to 35hz or even 30hz.

Chaz,
You can get the lower tuning way past the Fs for drivers with a moderate to high Qts. A similar, but simpler cabinet is the well-regarded TABAQ which is able to get 55 hz out of a 3 in driver and has a flatter response on the sim in MJK. The TABAQ has been scaled to 4 in 5 in and now 8 in drivers with success (8 in is on paper only as the builds have not been done yet - see the WIBAQ thread). The design is here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/atta...aq-design-betsy-k-wibaq-driver-9-inch-top.pdf
The Betsy K in the TABAQ is supposed to go to 35 Hz and is 45in full length - that can be folded for an approximate 2 ft tall cabinet.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/atta...513416-wibaq-tabaq-design-betsy-k-wibaqv2.jpg

Henkjan · 2013-01-10 10:28 pm

chazdrumzalot said:
Henkjan, I am fairly amazed at how good the bass is on this speaker, especially given that you have extended the bass to 1/2 the Fs of the driver. Do you think that a scaled-up version of the same design would work for larger drivers? I am trying to imagine how big this cabinet would have to be to be tuned to 35hz or even 30hz.

yep, I dis a scaled up version for the CSS EL70, tuned at 45Hz:

Bjohannesen · 2013-01-10 10:37 pm

Folded TABAQ - 3" Desktop with bass

Hi

The folded version of TABAQ has very good bass performance with the 3" TB.

http://www.coolcat.dk/bjoern/TABAQ BOX Cabinet build.pdf

PS: You can mount the driver in the middle of the baffle it you like.

Hi from
Bjorn

Chaz H · 2013-01-16 4:14 am

Hey guys, I did a quick test of my foam board desktop TLs using a frequency sweep. There was clean, clear bass down to 40HZ, maybe even lower, before there was significant rolloff. This is an awesome design!! I cannot wait to make a proper pair. The results could only get better and better.

xrk971 · 2013-01-16 7:46 am

Chaz,
That's really low for a 3 in driver - can you post FR sweep plot?

Chaz H · 2013-01-16 5:07 pm

I'll try to, but it won't be coming anytime soon. I'm heading out of the country in a couple of weeks and it won't happen until I get back. However, in the meantime I could run a sweep and record it, just to provide evidence of the bass extension. Obviously it will sound like crap.

Chaz H · 2013-01-17 12:56 am

Yikes, sorry for the faulty info guys. I THOUGHT that was too good to be true, especially since it contradicted the simulation. I didn't realize my subwoofer was hooked up last night.

The actual bass extension is a more moderate ~55hz.

dzwer · 2013-01-23 4:22 pm

Help with 4" coaxial car driver

Can someone rework the project for these speakers?
TS-E1076 (Archived) - Pioneer UK
Here are some measured parameters from this Russian website:
avtozvuk.com

Nominal power: 25W
Frequency response at level -3dB: 110 - 22000Hz
Sensitivity dB/W/m: 88dB (150 - 15000Hz)
THD at level 90dB at 1m(160 - 4000Hz): 2,03%
THD at level 90dB at 1m(100 - 125Hz): 9,15%
Midbass resonance frequency: 113Hz
Qts: 0,657
Vas: 1,94l
Force factor(BL): 3,4 T-m
Mms: 3,9g
Zmin for the midbass: 3,5ohms

Henkjan · 2013-01-23 10:06 pm

try and find (or estimate) the driver's Sd, and then use the spreadsheet found in this thread: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/163394-tl-alignment-tables-excel.html to get a good idea of how a TL should look. with a high Qt driver, you can choose a lower than fs tuning of the TL

dzwer · 2013-01-24 3:30 pm

Sd is 78.54 sq.cm(R=5cm) and nothing happened, when I fill in the xls file all required fields.
Does it mean this driver is not suitable for TL?

Henkjan · 2013-01-25 11:07 pm

what do you mean "nothing happened"? did you allow the macro's to run?

the driver is suited for a TL

dzwer · 2013-01-26 12:02 pm

I've forgot the macros...
Thanks!
Now the drivers are given for T/S measurements.
Let's see if the results will differ from the Russian website.

dzwer · 2013-01-30 3:38 pm

Here are the measurements:
Driver: Pioneer TS-E1067_1
Compliance (Vas) 1.065 liters
Resonance (Fs) 131.515 Hz
Mechanical Q (Qms) 5.990
Electrical Q (Qes) 1.089
Total Q (Qts) 0.922
DC Resistance (Re) 3.187 Ohms
Piston Area (SD**2) 50.000 sq cm

Driver: Pioneer TS-E1067_2
Compliance (Vas) 1.055 liters
Resonance (Fs) 131.512 Hz
Mechanical Q (Qms) 6.000
Electrical Q (Qes) 1.087
Total Q (Qts) 0.920
DC Resistance (Re) 3.198 Ohms
Piston Area (SD**2) 50.000 sq cm

Far away from the listed above...
I'll think what to do with these drivers...

nbriles2000 · 2014-07-04 8:54 am

Bjohannesen said:
Hi

The folded version of TABAQ has very good bass performance with the 3" TB.

http://www.coolcat.dk/bjoern/TABAQ BOX Cabinet build.pdf

PS: You can mount the driver in the middle of the baffle it you like.

Hi from
Bjorn

This is almost exactly what I'm looking for right now! Which drivers are those?

desktop TL with 3" driver (with real bass)

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