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Old 21st May 2008, 05:22 PM   #11
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My TB-871SC Needles match my Gen2 SI T-Amp well. I don't feel like anything is missing, but i don't have a golden ear or golden wallet either :-)

For my 41Hz amp 10, i'm definitely going Bigger Is Better or something similar, with larger full rangers that could handle the 50W RMS.

Cheers,
Mitch
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Old 21st May 2008, 05:59 PM   #12
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>>> My TB-871SC Needles match my Gen2 SI T-Amp well. I don't feel like anything is missing, but i don't have a golden ear or golden wallet either :-)

I think that's a great combination of components regardless of golden wallet or ear.

Godzilla
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Old 21st May 2008, 06:15 PM   #13
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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hi, http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZBM4.html , /sreten.
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Old 21st May 2008, 06:29 PM   #14
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I looked at that one too. The tweeters are out of stock on taht build for 6 to 8 weeks and my friend will be bringing what ever I get before then.
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Old 21st May 2008, 08:03 PM   #15
Kensai is offline Kensai  United States
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The 4ohm will work in OB. Anything will. The main thing to look at is the Qts of a given driver. A high Qts driver, like .7 or higher, is really only going to be good for OB (or IB or a really large sealed enclosure). What the high Qts is going to do is cause a rise in response as the driver approaches its resonant frequency. This "hump" in the bass response is what counteracts the natural OB rolloff starting at the frequency whose wavelength matches the width of the baffle, giving the appearance of being flat further down. A lower Qts driver in OB will start rolling off earlier, and while, like in this case, the lower Qts driver may have a lower Fs, and thus should be able to produce more bass, its already rolling off higher up and has nothing to counteract that. A lower Qts driver can sound good in OB, but will require EQ and more amplifier to reach its potential.

I wouldn't bother worrying about one of the Panny XR receivers for desktop/laptop setup. The T-Amp sounds significantly better on a critical listen with good, clear speakers. Save the receiver purchase for the next generation of units for your HT (or at least your living room; it'll be great for family/TV use).

The Pioneer A11s are good, especially for the price. I've built a pair of BiBs for them for a buddy, and he's been more than satisfied with them as 2.0 for his very large (not to mention very high ceilinged) living room, DVD watching, video game playing space. They are pretty forgiving (sounded okay raw sitting on the desk while I was breaking them in), but also a bit bright, even after 50+ hours of play and the huge bass boost from the BiBs. They are a bit uneven up top, though I was much less inclined to add a supertweet or EQ the top end than I was with my Pio B20s, which are much more mellow all around in direct comparison. However, I'm guessing that BiBs are going to be too big and too pricey/hard to make considering what you've said. I've seen a set of DIYer made measurements that don't look anything like the specs on the Parts Express site, and having had them in hand, I'm more inclined to believe those over the published ones. Using those, I'd recommend a 11.5 liter vented enclosure tuned to 62Hz or so. That'll get you pretty solid down to 55Hz or so and be decent for music. I can't really recommend them sealed or OB as you won't get anything under 100Hz, and depending on how you do it, you might not get much of anything under 150Hz.

And that pretty much puts me at the edge of my experience. I've had OBs using some Kenwood bicone 6"x9" car audio drivers that supposedly had a Qts of around 2 (that's 2.0, not 0.2) but apparently also had a resonance around 82Hz which is way high for such big cones, so they rattled the crap out of my desk around 90Hz, but needed serious EQ to get below 70Hz. I've had Pio B20, stock, phase plugged, and finally full blown P10 modded on similar baffles and they were more stable out to 70Hz or so, but still petered out about the same area as the Kenwoods, regardless of EQ (please note that I'm getting response within a few Hz of either with the RS100s with considerably less EQ). These, however, do really well in sealed enclosures in the 25-30 liter area and match up well with those 5/8" Dayton dome tweeters on 2uF caps.

I have no experience with TB drivers, though I am very interested in several of them, especially the 4" bamboo and that new 4" flat, aluminum honeycomb job. Both would probably want a vented enclosure or maybe a BiB to really be adequate on the bottom end.

Good luck and enjoy.

Kensai
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Old 21st May 2008, 09:35 PM   #16
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If you don't have to pay postage from the US, then the Audio Nirvana Super 8's in a large enclosure are very good value and efficient enough to be quite loud with a gen2 SI T-amp.

No Hi-fi is perfect, but this pairing is so good at the price, you're unlikely to be unhappy with it.

w
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Old 21st May 2008, 09:36 PM   #17
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so the 8 ohm would be better for OB but both can be used? Does it have to be 20" wide?
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Old 21st May 2008, 11:52 PM   #18
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I'm leaning towards the RS100 4 ohm. I always thought it would be fun to try bowls as enclosures and I found these that look like they might work. Like OB I've never tried bowl enclosures so let me know if yall see any red flags. I'm usually just a rectangular box mdf kinda guy.

http://www.target.com/Acacia-Salad-B...%20bowl&page=1
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Old 22nd May 2008, 01:50 AM   #19
Kensai is offline Kensai  United States
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You mean like take a pair of bowl, marry them at the lip somehow and make them into an enclosure? I've seen that around here somewhere. Guy used more normal shaped bowls, fashioned bands of wood from something darker to form the connection, and once the driver cutout was made in the bottom of one bowl and the connectors installed in the other, they looked like they might have been perfect spheres of wood before the speakers intruded. Reported great sound. Red flags are mainly concerned with the enclosure shape. You should have great imaging, but you'll have very early baffle step loss. The RS100s are already low sensitivity, so a BSC circuit (and I would NOT be the gut to come to for advice on those; been avoiding them like the plague since I got into this hobby) would just exacerbate that problem, at which point I'm pretty sure the T-amp would start to choke. Even with BSC filters, you're still likely going to need a sub to go with this sort of enclosure. Could be very nice, but now we're straying from the simple FR stereo setup and watching the price rise quickly.

As for the size of the OB, you can make it any size you want. This is not a critical issue. You need some sort of baffle, but even if you decided to go all out on baffle size, you hit a point of diminishing returns pretty quickly as the wavelength at a given frequency rises exponentially as the frequency drops. Mine are 20" because that's how wide the cardboard flaps I cut off some broken down boxes just happened to be that size. There was no plan. Now I did score them so I could fold 7" back on each side and that was planned since MJK in his last article on OB used a similar depth on some U-baffles he was testing. They're not folded straight back, though, just kinda 45 degree angles or so since they are basically pressing up against obstacles in my desktop environment to keep them bent back. So the baffles are only about 6" across the front, maybe 10" across tip to tip at the back in a sort of trapezoidal footprint, maybe 3"-4" deep. I'd recommend probably at least 8" across the front, probably more like 12", and then wings going straight back 3"-7", but probably leaving the top open. These are just guesses based on experience, I haven't actually tried any of these geometries specifically. It seems pretty easy to get below 80Hz of of these things on a small desktop OB, maybe even down close to 70Hz without EQ, at which point you're beating most commercial PC 2.0 systems, and the ones you're not, you're going to be stomping all over in sound quality and most likely price.

Kensai
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Old 22nd May 2008, 09:22 AM   #20
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This is great, I'm learning a lot, so even though the bowls I'm looking at have a rather flat bottom and will be more of an hour glass shape when glued together they'll still have the problem because they're round? The bottom is 6" across so things wont drop right off imidiately after the lip of the speaker. If its still a problem would it be resolved if I went with a more square bowl like these?

http://www.target.com/Mango-Wood-Squ...20bowls&page=1

Or should I just give up on the bowl thing? It would just make life easier.
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