Now I have them, a couple of DX3's, for a decent price.
They are from 2005, so I think they have new whizzer cones.
I had never heard them before in my live so I was curious about their sound.
I quickly build some, oversised( see pic), Voight pipes, to get an idea of the sound ..... and they are AMAZING !!
Never thought a unit to be that good!!
I paid 400 Euro, but after about half an hour of listening I would have been willing to pay the full price.
Of course I did a lot of searching on this forum and the Internet, but what I'm looking for is personal experience of people who used the DX3 in different (more then one !!) enclosures??
How do others use them, and some remarks on the sound:
a, Horn loaded?
b, Full Range back loaded?
c, Anyone build something from the frugal site ? and results ?
d, a FAST system, and what woofer??
e, also found the BIB design on this forum , sound differences in sound; BIB vs BLH ??
f, any off Ron's design's (Fe206e) , what adjustments ??
g, anything else ??
Any help off someone who can really compare different enclosures will be very much appreciated!!
Leon
They are from 2005, so I think they have new whizzer cones.
I had never heard them before in my live so I was curious about their sound.
I quickly build some, oversised( see pic), Voight pipes, to get an idea of the sound ..... and they are AMAZING !!
Never thought a unit to be that good!!
I paid 400 Euro, but after about half an hour of listening I would have been willing to pay the full price.
Of course I did a lot of searching on this forum and the Internet, but what I'm looking for is personal experience of people who used the DX3 in different (more then one !!) enclosures??
How do others use them, and some remarks on the sound:
a, Horn loaded?
b, Full Range back loaded?
c, Anyone build something from the frugal site ? and results ?
d, a FAST system, and what woofer??
e, also found the BIB design on this forum , sound differences in sound; BIB vs BLH ??
f, any off Ron's design's (Fe206e) , what adjustments ??
g, anything else ??
Any help off someone who can really compare different enclosures will be very much appreciated!!
Leon
Attachments
Well, a few observations. It completely depends on what you want, sonically. We're all different and want different things. They were designed with horn loading & SET amps in mind, not that that means you necessarily have to use either. MLTLs etc. are perfectly feasable with a correction circuit or suitable digital Eq in place. Bob Brines has a design available on his site for just that.
They also work well as mid-tweeter units partnered with suitable LF drivers on OB too. As to which supporting drivers, that depends on what exactly you're trying to do. Same goes for box systems of any kind. Not many plans about for those systems -the Basszillia is one example of OB + box subs (can't remember how much DO charges), and Martin has some plans on his site for a full dipole setup, & useful papers, to say nothing of his MathCAD sheets
AFAIK, nothing on the FH site is designed for Lowthers. You can certainly stuff them into some of the larger boxes & they should work well, 'orns being relatively forgiving (within reason), though in prinicple it's always better to design a cabinet specifically for a driver. That said, given that there is considerable deviation between individual drive-units, and their parameters change anyway with both break-in, and with use generally (as the voice-coils etc warm up) a degree of lattitude isn't necessarily a bad thing. Regarding horns generally, a few other thoughts. a) In about 10 seconds from now Horst will doubtless recommend one of his own cabinets. (sorry, couldn't resist
) b) The BIB is a BLH, albeit using a degree of QW action across part of its BW (like 99.999% of other BLHs do, so it's not alone there) c) there are innumerable horn designs for Lowthers lurking on forums -scout around & see which grabs your eye, but beware: not all are necessarily great, so it's a good idea to thoroughly research the one that appeals (if any) in advance to see if it will suit your requirements (room, system, music, taste etc.) before making a decision.
FWIW, my friend Steve pulled his EX4s out of their original BLH & now runs them OB with vintage Goodmans drivers in support. Considerable improvement in all areas; however, that says more about the BLHs he had them in, which wasn't IMO optimal (though certainly entertaining) than it does about the merits of horns, baffles or anything else.
They also work well as mid-tweeter units partnered with suitable LF drivers on OB too. As to which supporting drivers, that depends on what exactly you're trying to do. Same goes for box systems of any kind. Not many plans about for those systems -the Basszillia is one example of OB + box subs (can't remember how much DO charges), and Martin has some plans on his site for a full dipole setup, & useful papers, to say nothing of his MathCAD sheets
AFAIK, nothing on the FH site is designed for Lowthers. You can certainly stuff them into some of the larger boxes & they should work well, 'orns being relatively forgiving (within reason), though in prinicple it's always better to design a cabinet specifically for a driver. That said, given that there is considerable deviation between individual drive-units, and their parameters change anyway with both break-in, and with use generally (as the voice-coils etc warm up) a degree of lattitude isn't necessarily a bad thing. Regarding horns generally, a few other thoughts. a) In about 10 seconds from now Horst will doubtless recommend one of his own cabinets. (sorry, couldn't resist
) b) The BIB is a BLH, albeit using a degree of QW action across part of its BW (like 99.999% of other BLHs do, so it's not alone there) c) there are innumerable horn designs for Lowthers lurking on forums -scout around & see which grabs your eye, but beware: not all are necessarily great, so it's a good idea to thoroughly research the one that appeals (if any) in advance to see if it will suit your requirements (room, system, music, taste etc.) before making a decision. FWIW, my friend Steve pulled his EX4s out of their original BLH & now runs them OB with vintage Goodmans drivers in support. Considerable improvement in all areas; however, that says more about the BLHs he had them in, which wasn't IMO optimal (though certainly entertaining) than it does about the merits of horns, baffles or anything else.
Depends on the drivers, frankly. There's not going to be a 'one size fits all' XO point that will work with every driver. FWIW, Steve
rolls the Goodmans units off above ~1KHz. On paper not ideal, but seems to work OK. As a rough guide, I reckon something around either 200Hz or 500Hz depending on your power-handling requirements should do OK.
rolls the Goodmans units off above ~1KHz. On paper not ideal, but seems to work OK. As a rough guide, I reckon something around either 200Hz or 500Hz depending on your power-handling requirements should do OK.
http://www.quarter-wave.com/Project04/Project04.html
http://www.quarter-wave.com/Project06/Project06.html
Hi, both worth a perusal regarding the DX3, /sreten.
http://www.quarter-wave.com/Project06/Project06.html
Hi, both worth a perusal regarding the DX3, /sreten.
Thank's sreten for contributing.
I do use an SE el84 amp ( 2x2,5 watt)
So only the OB , on Martin's site , will do.
BSC on the other 2 will decrease efficienty to much.
I'm not planning on upgrading my amp.
I was planning to get some gain in building a BLH, and so I'm looking for a good design wich will go down to 40-50 HZ.
I studied the frugel site and go probably for the "Sachiko".
Anyone build the Sachiko ??
Also charmed with the "curvy chang" design ; but I don't see the DX3 mentioned to be suitable ??
Is it possible to adjust the curvy design for the DX3 ??
Leon
I do use an SE el84 amp ( 2x2,5 watt)
So only the OB , on Martin's site , will do.
BSC on the other 2 will decrease efficienty to much.
I'm not planning on upgrading my amp.
I was planning to get some gain in building a BLH, and so I'm looking for a good design wich will go down to 40-50 HZ.
I studied the frugel site and go probably for the "Sachiko".
Anyone build the Sachiko ??
Also charmed with the "curvy chang" design ; but I don't see the DX3 mentioned to be suitable ??
Is it possible to adjust the curvy design for the DX3 ??
Leon
Attachments
Leonidas said:
Hi,
One possibility is a passive line level BSC filter before the amplifier.
e.g. http://sound.westhost.com/bafflestep.htm
/sreten.
Digital Eq can do fine too, although the main issue with these boxes is LF transient handling due to their limited excursion, so it depends what's needed.
The DX3, looking at the measured T/S parameters Martin has on his site, and those Lowther recently sent me (for an unrelated purpose) should do fine in Sachiko, if you can cope with the size. There are a couple of build threads on this forum IIRC, & some recent remarks in the main Spawn thread here. Jeff Carder also builds & sells them commercially (renamed as Madison) using the FE206E -seems to get positive comments -FWIW, this is what one of his buyers left: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?rspkr&1206563498&read&3&4&
The DX3, looking at the measured T/S parameters Martin has on his site, and those Lowther recently sent me (for an unrelated purpose) should do fine in Sachiko, if you can cope with the size. There are a couple of build threads on this forum IIRC, & some recent remarks in the main Spawn thread here. Jeff Carder also builds & sells them commercially (renamed as Madison) using the FE206E -seems to get positive comments -FWIW, this is what one of his buyers left: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/frr.pl?rspkr&1206563498&read&3&4&
Hey Scott, you said nothing on the Frugal Horn site is designed for the Lowther, but isn't the Sachiko designed with the Lowther in mind?
I'm planning on that for my next build in a few weeks with DX4 drivers. Should I change anything to accomodate the Lowther?
Leonidas, I have the DX3s in a BIB (Scott's dimensions not GMs) and they sound fantastic. I had the same reaction that you did and quickly started searching out more designs. I'm hoping the Sachiko will work well.
I'm planning on that for my next build in a few weeks with DX4 drivers. Should I change anything to accomodate the Lowther?
Leonidas, I have the DX3s in a BIB (Scott's dimensions not GMs) and they sound fantastic. I had the same reaction that you did and quickly started searching out more designs. I'm hoping the Sachiko will work well.
No. It was designed specifically for the FE206E. The fact that other drivers should work quite nicely is a case of circumstance rather than design. BLHs are generally more forgiving of driver alterations (within reason) than, say, a regular BR enclosure in this respect, so if the parameters are reasonably close then it should do OK. I tend to deliberately put a little lattitude in my cabinets anyway, because driver parameters change when in use, and are subject to sample variability.
Anyway, looking at both Martin's & Lowther's T/S parameters, the DX3/4 should do OK, at the price of a little less LF grunt than the 206 it was designed for. Sachiko isn't lacking for gain down to 40Hz, so I doubt this will be a real issue. For e.g. this is what the modelled FR looks like with the DX3. SPL at 40Hz still 90db 1w/1m. Excursion's well within limits too. As usual with the three boxes based on this folding scheme, ignore everything over about 250Hz -the software isn't accounting for the midrange / HF attenuation provided by the folding scheme & damping.
Anyway, looking at both Martin's & Lowther's T/S parameters, the DX3/4 should do OK, at the price of a little less LF grunt than the 206 it was designed for. Sachiko isn't lacking for gain down to 40Hz, so I doubt this will be a real issue. For e.g. this is what the modelled FR looks like with the DX3. SPL at 40Hz still 90db 1w/1m. Excursion's well within limits too. As usual with the three boxes based on this folding scheme, ignore everything over about 250Hz -the software isn't accounting for the midrange / HF attenuation provided by the folding scheme & damping.
Attachments
To Gnugear:
Saw your "building-drift" on this forum.
Your work looks fantastic!!
Corner loading is possible for me, after rearranging the room.
Should I wait, until you build the second design, and you can compare the two designs??
Can you please give me the "Scott-dimensions"for the DX3??
Couldn't find them.
To Scott:
Did some reading about the "Sachiko".
And ...... no WAF here !! my wife agrees !! Only condition : have to make them sound BETTER !!
They look great, but only sims for the DX3.
Anyone who really used a DX3 in the Sachiko??
To sreten:
Won't the BSC, on the recommended site, reduce amp efficienty??
What I mean ; 3dB BSC will give me 3 watts in the lows and 1,5 watts in the highs, meaning overal efficenty off the system will be lower ?? Am I wrong; please explain ??
Still looking for someone who build more then one enclosure for the DX3's!!
I don't mind the difficulty of building, did some horns with fostex before, see pic.
Leon
Saw your "building-drift" on this forum.
Your work looks fantastic!!
Corner loading is possible for me, after rearranging the room.
Should I wait, until you build the second design, and you can compare the two designs??
Can you please give me the "Scott-dimensions"for the DX3??
Couldn't find them.
To Scott:
Did some reading about the "Sachiko".
And ...... no WAF here !! my wife agrees !! Only condition : have to make them sound BETTER !!
They look great, but only sims for the DX3.
Anyone who really used a DX3 in the Sachiko??
To sreten:
Won't the BSC, on the recommended site, reduce amp efficienty??
What I mean ; 3dB BSC will give me 3 watts in the lows and 1,5 watts in the highs, meaning overal efficenty off the system will be lower ?? Am I wrong; please explain ??
Still looking for someone who build more then one enclosure for the DX3's!!
I don't mind the difficulty of building, did some horns with fostex before, see pic.
Leon
Attachments
Nobody has DX3s in this cabinet at present AFAIK. Unfortunately, very few people (in relative terms) are in the happy position of being able to afford Lowthers, myself included. That said, see my above remarks about horns & drivers. The HF & midband will be no different, LF will have slight differences over the design driver, but not massive.
Lowther EX4
Scott, I own a pair of Madison (I’m the customer who left the review on Agon) and was wondering how they would work with a pair of Lowther EX4’s. On the frugal horn website it seems the horns were tested with EX4’s.
I am very happy with the 206E, especially after I used some poly-fill behind the drivers, but ideally I need a driver that is slightly more sensitive and with higher nominal impedance than the 206. I was thinking an EX4 with 99db sensitivity and 15ohm nominal impedance would hit the spot.
The local Lowther dealer recommended EX4 with the Madisons. Jeff advised that I should run it past you and get your opinion before I pull the trigger. Am I going to be in tears of will they work well?
Thanks
Paul
Scott, I own a pair of Madison (I’m the customer who left the review on Agon) and was wondering how they would work with a pair of Lowther EX4’s. On the frugal horn website it seems the horns were tested with EX4’s.
I am very happy with the 206E, especially after I used some poly-fill behind the drivers, but ideally I need a driver that is slightly more sensitive and with higher nominal impedance than the 206. I was thinking an EX4 with 99db sensitivity and 15ohm nominal impedance would hit the spot.
The local Lowther dealer recommended EX4 with the Madisons. Jeff advised that I should run it past you and get your opinion before I pull the trigger. Am I going to be in tears of will they work well?
Thanks
Paul
Well the EX4 is basically a DX4 with a foam-filled cavity bolted to the back. So it should go in and work quite acceptably, although as you'd expect, the 206 will have a little more gain in the LF given that that's the driver the cabinet was designed for -see the above simulated FR plot. Flip side is that the EX will have an edge in the mids & treble, so your call.
I don't have any data on the 15ohm units, but I do have those of the 8ohm version -it has a touch more sensitivity than the 206, but not a massive difference (about 0.5db to be precise, according to some figures Lowther supplied me a little while back). As you obviously want a better impedance match to your amp, you'll likely benefit from that anyway, irrespective of whether it's a more efficient driver or not.
I don't have any data on the 15ohm units, but I do have those of the 8ohm version -it has a touch more sensitivity than the 206, but not a massive difference (about 0.5db to be precise, according to some figures Lowther supplied me a little while back). As you obviously want a better impedance match to your amp, you'll likely benefit from that anyway, irrespective of whether it's a more efficient driver or not.
Hi,
No. It does not decrease amplifier efficiency.
It changes the power profile sent to the speaker.
This profile gives a flatter better frequency response.
What you end up with is is less likelyhood of treble clipping. The reduction of
treble levels also means the bass end can play slightly louder without clipping.
A passive (built into the speaker) BSC circuit does decrease efficiency.
Line level BSC makes the most of your very expensive valve watts.
/Sreten.
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