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Old 13th July 2009, 12:06 PM   #41
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I dunno about superlative. Subs? A tapped horn or a large TL for preference.
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Old 14th July 2009, 01:00 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by Samuel Jayaraj
...I am asking because the same driver, say for example in a BiB puts out so much bass, that most people have had to say that they had to cut it down and many feel that their BiBs with the 168EZ do not need corner loading.
Samuel, I have a BIB with a 168EZ and I can't say I have to cut the bass, just the contrary, to EQ them a lot to get a decent balanced sound.
Ok... they are just against a single wall now ; when they were in the corners it was a different thing with a strong 37 Hz.
But even in this case, I never loved totally the bass of the BIB, they sound a little bit as from a cavern and the damping doesn't cure the problem .

I'm very interested by the Ceinwyns. They make the bass by themselves and not by room expansion and I hope them to sound better into my poor squared room... so I plan to MODIFY my BIB into a Ceinwyn - hard job !

Now, when simulating a big 30 liters bass reflex in WinISD my only tool (I know Scoot used another way to design the Ceinwyn) I get a poor result due to the low QTS of the FE168ES.
But it's a lot better with 5 ohm added in series - and also in lowering the tuning frequency.

Click the image to open in full size.


Perhaps is that a valid way to test to boost the bass response of the Ceinwyn ?
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Old 14th July 2009, 04:03 AM   #43
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Leglandu, the Ceinwyn was designed probably used MJK's MathCad. I guess you could get close using David Mc'Bean's HornResp. Akabak would take you further, but I am told it is not so easy to learn.

Is you BiB built with MDF? What you are hearing could be cabinet resonance. I built a BiB for a 2 way system and had problems with inadequate bass. But that was due to a leaky cab built by my carpenters. Moreoever, it was an experimental box and I used 8mm MDF. I could clearly hear the walls resonating.

I would suggest that you build the Ceinwyn with 13 layer Marine Ply and then add veneer.

In the meantime, try your BiB in an inverted position with the opening firing on to the floor; you can play around with the height of the opening and pull it away from wall boundaries. I did just that and it was a lot better.

Scott, thanks for your suggestion on suitable subs. I'll look around for something small enough for domestic purposes.
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Old 14th July 2009, 07:15 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by Leglandu
so I plan to MODIFY my BIB into a Ceinwyn - hard job !
Start from scratch. It will be much less work and give a much better result.
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Old 14th July 2009, 09:08 AM   #45
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Agreed. Trying to modify an existing pair of cabinets will not be at all easy, esp. as the dimensions are critical -change anything, and it won't work as intended.

No, the Ceinwyn cab. wasn't designed in or using MathCAD; however, I did run it through the worksheets afterward, as far as the last available verson of the software allowed.

Re the WinISD plot, be careful: it looks nice, but would not be all that practical -it's an anechoic T/S based plot that doesn't take anything else into consideration, particularly room gain. It'll sound bass heavy in practice. And as cabinet types become more complex, so you have to become increasingly careful when using any software, due to the greater number of variables at work.
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Old 14th July 2009, 12:41 PM   #46
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Sam, my BIB is made of 18mm ply, the one used for Cinema scenery. It seems to be a nice fourniture. I also reinforced the last 1/4 of the BIB with carbon tubes and the enclosure itself doesn't vibrate.
The internal bafle is not so good (15mm) and transmit some medium/hight frequencies to the back, not good for the imaging but no impact on the bass I think but I can try to reinforce it.
I also plan to remove from all the inside the 3mm cork I glued and replace it by a 5mm felt I own.
I already tried the inverted position for my 1,78 meter high BIB, the sound is not very different, a little more bass but also more resonances, nothing to justify a so poor MAF (man acceptance factor)

Peter, you are perfectly right in the absolute. Now, I love my design and just modify can be a fun challenge... and to be honest I can't spend money in ply for the moment

Scott : I just read you post, thx. Mmm... WinISD let us to think we can control the all things and you just try to explain unfortunately real life is not so simple !?
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Old 14th July 2009, 01:55 PM   #47
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Talking Yes, we can...

Click the image to open in full size. Click the image to open in full size.
Sorry, i'm not so good at PhotoFiltre...
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Old 14th July 2009, 03:16 PM   #48
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You'll loose out on the floor coupling of the lower horn like that.

Are they exactly the same width & depth as Ceinwyn then?
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Old 14th July 2009, 04:03 PM   #49
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No, they have a more rectangular section : internal dimensions for the main cavity (in the case of the above project) would be about 185 x 280 x 610 mm =~ 31 liters.

In fact, I wrongly chose the BIB, I was passionate by the big thread but it was an "error of casting", my room is not adapted, too squared, too clear, no access to the corners...

This is why I have done some WinIso simulations to see what to expect from a "Ceinwyn like" mutation... but the FE168EZ seems to be hard to use full range with full bass.
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Old 14th July 2009, 07:33 PM   #50
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Then it won't work as intended. The waveguide / horn shapes in particular will be compromised. They are sized the way they are for a reason.

As I mentioned above, Ceinwyn is not designed for major bass output, so if that's what you want, you probably won't be satisfied. As I mentioned, they're designed for smaller-scale acoustic music, in modest spaces, with valve amps / Class A SS.
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