How will a BIB and Sachiko differ?

[gnugear]

I know the Bib will have more bass, but what will the Sachiko offer that the Bib won't?

[crick]

I too am wondering about that.I have a pair of very lightly used 206ES-R's on the way and wonder about the difference between the Sachiko and the Fostex recomended.I think the BIB would be the largest of the three?
Doug

[musgofasa]

Having not actually listened to either design, but having heard many reviews, I will try to offer what might be a somewhat accurate reply.

The BIB is likely to produce the most bass if it loads the room correctly. From what I have heard from other builders, the BIB doesn't have the open/ wide sound stage of a build with the front firing configuration.
The people who have built the BVRs describe what seems like a very large wavefront which makes sense considering the size of the outputs and in the case of Sachiko, the size of the baffle. My guess would be the Sachiko will make up for whatever lack of low end it might have (I say might because with it's size I doubt there is a noticeable difference in low freq output) by adding some focus and imaging abilities.

I think the Sachiko is likely the better "sounding" of the two builds, but considering the extreme difference in build complexity, the differences may only justify themselves to a very experienced cabinet builder.

I dare also say that the sound may please one listener more than another in any given room from one speaker to the next. Unfortunately, advantages can be hard to describe. I wonder if Scott cares to elaborate as to the advantages to the design?

Take care,
Robert

[hm]

Hello,

"Having not actually listened to either design"

whow,
the developer must have measurements and impedanz,

if not, take care?

something like this.

[gnugear]

Thanks, the imaging and soundstaging aspects of the Sachiko sound very intriguing to me. I'm talking to a builder today to get a quote on the cuts.

[crick]

Quality is better than quantity.

[rjbond3rd]

Wow, deja vu. Does anyone have the feeling that this debate took place already?

[chrisb]

Originally posted by crick
I too am wondering about that.I have a pair of very lightly used 206ES-R's on the way and wonder about the difference between the Sachiko and the Fostex recomended.I think the BIB would be the largest of the three?
Doug

The Fostex recommended (Nagaoko derived) BLH for this driver is a monster (close to 5 sheets of 5x5ft BB ply for the pair), and a major PITA to construct. A non-compromised BIB would certainly be quite imposing as well, and definitely have some placement issues.

Based on extrapolation of experience with several different Fostex drivers in a variety of Scott's designs, the 206eS-R Horns, and a small BIB for FE108E-Sigmas, the first things that come to mind would be: refinement of bass articulation and soundstage coherency.

The BIB is a huge bang for the buck design - I first heard a pair of TC's, using FE164's in 2001, driven crazy by a pair of George Wright 45 triode monoblocks. There has to be a reason that Terry never pursued this as a commercial product, whereas the Voigt pipe based Abby and BEN-horn families become quite successful.

Even with proper boundary (i.e. corner/ceiling) loading, the BIB's I've heard had more discernible ripple than the same driver in a BVR, "conventional" commercial or DIY/BLH, or any of the Scottmoose SPAWN family. For example, the Aiko is the best sound I've yet heard from an unaided pair of FE108ESigma.

OTOH, a double mouthed horn/BVR etc such as Sachiko, or whichever Chang sibling best suits your driver of choice, are not without their own issues: they need a fair listening distance to coherently integrate their image.

[gnugear]

"OTOH, a double mouthed horn/BVR etc such as Sachiko, or whichever Chang sibling best suits your driver of choice, are not without their own issues: they need a fair listening distance to coherently integrate their image."

Do you know what that distance would be? I have a smaller room and normally sit about 7-8 feet away from the speakers.

[Scottmoose]

Originally posted by hm
"Having not actually listened to either design"
whow,
the developer must have measurements and impedanz,
if not, take care?

Musgofasa did not develop either cabinet, so there's no reason why he should have heard, or measured them is there? That doesn't mean he can't offer an opinion based on his own knowledge and experience, and what he observes is spot on IMHO. I can only really add to what he & Chris suggest by commenting that a BIB can throw up a very large soundstage, but it needs to be properly corner-loaded to do it.

As for measurements, we've had this conversation before, and nothing's changed.

Originally posted by chrisb
The BIB is a huge bang for the buck design - I first heard a pair of TC's, using FE164's in 2001, driven crazy by a pair of George Wright 45 triode monoblocks. There has to be a reason that Terry never pursued this as a commercial product, whereas the Voigt pipe based Abby and BEN-horn families become quite successful.

IIRC, they'll have been with the original FE168Sigma. I suspect Terry abandoned the idea because the 168 was replaced by the new ESigma model right when he finished his pre-production boxes for the superceeded unit. Plus, they tend to need a little more attention to placement than most speakers do -fine for us DIY types, but more than some commercial buyers would deem acceptable.