Would anyone be willing to share their stories in which someone -- an individual or a company -- tried to steal or unjustly profit from DIY fullrange speaker designs (or any related software)?
I'm not looking to identify the guilty parties -- I'm just curious about who (in general) attempts this, how far they get, and how they are eventually thwarted. (I'm a computer programmer and adjunct college instructor, and yes, I've had my software stolen more than a few times by dishonest people acting on behalf of organizations.)
Even hearsay or anecdotes could be interesting, so long as no names are mentioned.
I'm not looking to identify the guilty parties -- I'm just curious about who (in general) attempts this, how far they get, and how they are eventually thwarted. (I'm a computer programmer and adjunct college instructor, and yes, I've had my software stolen more than a few times by dishonest people acting on behalf of organizations.)
Even hearsay or anecdotes could be interesting, so long as no names are mentioned.
One wannabe audio magazine writer started selling Sachikos and Half Changs for ridiculous prices on his site, claiming they were his own design. He even stole two or three paragraphs of Scottmoose's text verbatim from the Spawn of Frugal Horn page and used it on his own site!
Details are buried in the Spawn of Frugal Horn thread - Planet 10 shamed him into taking the "designs" off his site.
The audio business is rife with people of questionable ethics. My own experience was with a friend who is a manufacturer of audio tweaks (good ones by the way, none of this machina dynamica garbage) who also happens to be the former proprietor of an audio dealership that closed several years ago. Fast forward to today, one of his former salesmen is now a writer for a fairly successful online audio review site. This former salesman and at the time current friend gave a product a glowing review on this site without divulging his relationship with the manufacturer, something I would consider to be a glaring conflict of interest.
I believe this kind of stuff goes on all the time, which is why I find most audio reviews less than useless.
Details are buried in the Spawn of Frugal Horn thread - Planet 10 shamed him into taking the "designs" off his site.
The audio business is rife with people of questionable ethics. My own experience was with a friend who is a manufacturer of audio tweaks (good ones by the way, none of this machina dynamica garbage) who also happens to be the former proprietor of an audio dealership that closed several years ago. Fast forward to today, one of his former salesmen is now a writer for a fairly successful online audio review site. This former salesman and at the time current friend gave a product a glowing review on this site without divulging his relationship with the manufacturer, something I would consider to be a glaring conflict of interest.
I believe this kind of stuff goes on all the time, which is why I find most audio reviews less than useless.
I learned a valuable lesson along these lines about 12 years ago.
Not a full range cabinet, but a simple subwoofer design we used for car audio. My father and I owned a local car stereo shop at the time and we had come up with a sub cabinet design that worked very well in so many different types of vehicles that we started building them by the hundreds. We even got a patent on the design although we all know how much protection that offers in the real world.
The bottom line was that we gave the design out for DIY use. We didn't mind the local kids and others building the box because it meant they would be buying amps and subs to put in them and the time it took us to construct them made them less than profitable. One of our vendors was a company that made mass produced car sub boxes. You know the cheap, grey carpeted things. Anyway, he sent us a catalog one day and right there in the first couple of pages was our design. We ordered one and the dimensions were identical. Everything was the same right down to the paint finish. At last check they had sold some 250,000 of these things for over twice what we were getting for them...
Sometimes you just miss the boat ya know? lol
Robert
(oh, yeah we contacted an attorney or two, but they just laughed about it)
Not a full range cabinet, but a simple subwoofer design we used for car audio. My father and I owned a local car stereo shop at the time and we had come up with a sub cabinet design that worked very well in so many different types of vehicles that we started building them by the hundreds. We even got a patent on the design although we all know how much protection that offers in the real world.
The bottom line was that we gave the design out for DIY use. We didn't mind the local kids and others building the box because it meant they would be buying amps and subs to put in them and the time it took us to construct them made them less than profitable. One of our vendors was a company that made mass produced car sub boxes. You know the cheap, grey carpeted things. Anyway, he sent us a catalog one day and right there in the first couple of pages was our design. We ordered one and the dimensions were identical. Everything was the same right down to the paint finish. At last check they had sold some 250,000 of these things for over twice what we were getting for them...
Sometimes you just miss the boat ya know? lol
Robert
(oh, yeah we contacted an attorney or two, but they just laughed about it)
rjbond3rd said:
These look suspiciously like something off the Spawn site.
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1209601578
Re: Re: OT: DIY Attempted Theft Stories
He actually give design credit to the Frugal Horn website, and encourages DIYers to build their own cabinets. He is selling the cabinets he makes in a variety of finishes.
I wonder if he has contacted Dave (Planet 10) and offered a kick back for his hard work on those horns? Probably not.
Good find castlesteve!
Renron
castlesteve said:
He actually give design credit to the Frugal Horn website, and encourages DIYers to build their own cabinets. He is selling the cabinets he makes in a variety of finishes.
I wonder if he has contacted Dave (Planet 10) and offered a kick back for his hard work on those horns? Probably not.
Good find castlesteve!
Renron
Go to this page from the Teresonics web site :
http://www.teresonic.com/resources.htm
Scroll down to "Reading", click on the "Introduction to Transmission Line speakers.pdf" link. I have absolutely no relationship with this speaker manufacturer even though they have helped themselves to an article from my site and posted it on their site.
http://www.teresonic.com/resources.htm
Scroll down to "Reading", click on the "Introduction to Transmission Line speakers.pdf" link. I have absolutely no relationship with this speaker manufacturer even though they have helped themselves to an article from my site and posted it on their site.
and I don't think MJK and Scottmoose get the props they deserve.Re: Re: OT: DIY Attempted Theft Stories
From my perspective, this audiogon seller is taking advantage of the work of others without setting things right up front. I have a problem with him.
I will post a few more examples as I remember where they are on the Internet. I hope people will understand when it gets to the point where it is not worth supporting the DIYer community.
castlesteve said:
From my perspective, this audiogon seller is taking advantage of the work of others without setting things right up front. I have a problem with him.
I will post a few more examples as I remember where they are on the Internet. I hope people will understand when it gets to the point where it is not worth supporting the DIYer community.
Hello,
i have a story:
1994 I construct the LURE with DDD Driver,
1998 I gave it to German Physiks for testig,
He write that he won´t use it.
2001 I got internet and see the horn around the world,
he called it unicorn.
2002 I went at court,
2005 I won and get money, 10k$.
i have a story:
1994 I construct the LURE with DDD Driver,
1998 I gave it to German Physiks for testig,
He write that he won´t use it.
2001 I got internet and see the horn around the world,
he called it unicorn.
2002 I went at court,
2005 I won and get money, 10k$.
Attachments
Renron said:Martin, my apologies, I was in error. I meant no discredit to your work.
I'll go unplug my MLQW Thors for 1 hour in pennance.
I am NOT supporting this guy in ANY way, just to be clear.
Thank you for your generousity with the DIY community.
Ron
Ron,
I have known about the Audiogon add for a while. I was just saying that your post is a good example of a questionable enterprise that may or may not become legit. I am in no way involving your post in the situation, I just used you post to bring to light something that has been taking place more and more frequently.
Please plug your speakers back in and go back to enjoying the music. I have absolutely no problem with DIYers building speaker designs that may have originated from my software. The feedback I get, both pro's and con's, moves the software forward and hopefully makes it even more accurate.
Re: Re: Re: OT: DIY Attempted Theft Stories
Jeff is doing it the right way. He contacted Scott & i for permission. I just finished reading an email from him that indicated he was ready to full-fill the 1 required monetary requirement to sell frugal-horn designs and that is to pay for a commercial licence for the MJK software -- if we can score more then that is a small effort on our part to help repay Martin for the great service he has done for the community.
Donations to the frugal-horn site are optional, but encouraged, they give some resources towards maintaining the site, developing new designs, and actually building the occasional one.
To date he has completed 1 sale & has deposits for 2 others.
If the other gentleman in question had just asked, and been prepared to follow the restrictions he could be selling them too.
http://www.frugal-horn.com/use.html
Part of the purpose of the frugal-horn site is to encourage small cottage industries to bring these designs out as finished product for local consumption by those not within reach of making them themselves and countering some of the over the top pricing of some commercial ventures (ie the warmed over Fostex recommended FE108eS box that sells for close to $4k. I also have a great dislike for the amount of shipping (& energy use) inherent in shipping big boxes all over the place. Part of a made local, consumed local push, direct from the manufacturer consumption model (hopefully one can see that there is more than just diy speakers embedded into the Frugal-horn concept)
We have been holdong back some of our designs for our own use.
dave
Renron said:
Jeff is doing it the right way. He contacted Scott & i for permission. I just finished reading an email from him that indicated he was ready to full-fill the 1 required monetary requirement to sell frugal-horn designs and that is to pay for a commercial licence for the MJK software -- if we can score more then that is a small effort on our part to help repay Martin for the great service he has done for the community.
Donations to the frugal-horn site are optional, but encouraged, they give some resources towards maintaining the site, developing new designs, and actually building the occasional one.
To date he has completed 1 sale & has deposits for 2 others.
If the other gentleman in question had just asked, and been prepared to follow the restrictions he could be selling them too.
http://www.frugal-horn.com/use.html
Part of the purpose of the frugal-horn site is to encourage small cottage industries to bring these designs out as finished product for local consumption by those not within reach of making them themselves and countering some of the over the top pricing of some commercial ventures (ie the warmed over Fostex recommended FE108eS box that sells for close to $4k. I also have a great dislike for the amount of shipping (& energy use) inherent in shipping big boxes all over the place. Part of a made local, consumed local push, direct from the manufacturer consumption model (hopefully one can see that there is more than just diy speakers embedded into the Frugal-horn concept)
We have been holdong back some of our designs for our own use.
dave
Hello All,
My name is Jeff Carder and I am the proud owner of the newly formed company, CarderSound, which some of you have found ads for on Audiogon. I construct double mouth speaker cabinets from the Spawn Family Plans located on the Frugal-Horn website. I have been alerted to some previous postings that I have not followed proper channels to be legally allowed to promote these designs commercially. This could not be farther from the truth, and my apologies to anyone that has received false information concerning CarderSound's involvement with Frugal-Horn, Martin King, and the procurement of the proper licensing to do so. I have been in email communication with Scott, Dave, and now just recently, Martin, about adhearing to every and all necessary requirements.
For anyone who has built these designs, I am sure I would get little argument that the design itself is nothing short of incredible. CarderSound was formed to help spread the good word about this DIY design and help those who don't have the ability or equipment necessary to undertake such a project and allow them the opportunity to have such sonic pleasure in their homes.
At this point, I am somewhat concerned about other threads that might be popping up on other sights about my efforts and my intentions. I would appreciate that all who care, do what they can to help me "set the record straight" as far as the honorable intentions of my company and that all necessary channels have been and are being followed.
I welcome any comments, questions, or concerns from any and all who care. I can be reached at CarderSound@Comcast.net or feel free to call me at 856-982-8029. I would be happy to clear up any confusion.
Thank you for allowing me to interrupt the thread with my misc ramblings.
Kindest Regards,
Jeff Carder
CarderSound
My name is Jeff Carder and I am the proud owner of the newly formed company, CarderSound, which some of you have found ads for on Audiogon. I construct double mouth speaker cabinets from the Spawn Family Plans located on the Frugal-Horn website. I have been alerted to some previous postings that I have not followed proper channels to be legally allowed to promote these designs commercially. This could not be farther from the truth, and my apologies to anyone that has received false information concerning CarderSound's involvement with Frugal-Horn, Martin King, and the procurement of the proper licensing to do so. I have been in email communication with Scott, Dave, and now just recently, Martin, about adhearing to every and all necessary requirements.
For anyone who has built these designs, I am sure I would get little argument that the design itself is nothing short of incredible. CarderSound was formed to help spread the good word about this DIY design and help those who don't have the ability or equipment necessary to undertake such a project and allow them the opportunity to have such sonic pleasure in their homes.
At this point, I am somewhat concerned about other threads that might be popping up on other sights about my efforts and my intentions. I would appreciate that all who care, do what they can to help me "set the record straight" as far as the honorable intentions of my company and that all necessary channels have been and are being followed.
I welcome any comments, questions, or concerns from any and all who care. I can be reached at CarderSound@Comcast.net or feel free to call me at 856-982-8029. I would be happy to clear up any confusion.
Thank you for allowing me to interrupt the thread with my misc ramblings.
Kindest Regards,
Jeff Carder
CarderSound
Seconded. There was a slight communication problem about the MathCAD licence (a case of wires crossed over an email ambiguity) that caused a delay, which has now been sorted out.
Dave -a thought that's occured to me; perhaps a page added to the FH site with a list of companies producing cabinets to designs on there might be useful.
Dave -a thought that's occured to me; perhaps a page added to the FH site with a list of companies producing cabinets to designs on there might be useful.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.