Cal Weldon said:
It wasn't. It's just that every time I see a picture of a scantily clad woman, I start to think about, well, you know, and I don't associate that with a DIY activity.
You don't consider scantily clad women something you would 'do it yourself'? Pun oh so very much intended.
I've commited something of a sin for this fullrange board, I've ordered a pair of Seas 22TAF/G tweeters. Going to play around with that to see if I can improve something. I'm now looking for crossover options, and am thinking about a 6dB at 3~4kHz. Though I have some experience in the field of filters (mainly active ones / micro electronica though), crossovers are partly magic to me when it comes to level matching and (different) driver impedance and their effect on the crossover.
If anyone could point me to a good information source about crossovers (or has oddly enough done exactly the same thing and just so happens to have the perfect schematic for me), it'd be much appreciated. I figure I'll have to play a bit with different crossovers, but I'd like to get it right in the first few tries. I do have a scope, frequency generator, and all that jazz. I don't have decent gear to measure the actual sound output of the speakers though, aside from a cheap microphone and a laptop with internal soundcard (which I trust far less than I trust my stereo regarding linearity).
It may be worth investing in good measurement equipment (better microphone and decent external soundcard), but at the moment I'm a student who is also saving for a 2 month roadtrip this summer so I don't have too much to spare.
Good write up, digitalmind, well done with the build and comments. I've just returned from the Netherlands, had I known this was going on I might have planned a listening diversion ...
The only way I know to get around the extreme toe-in (apart from the wheels) is to place the enclosures back to back and use reflectors. The TV would have to go on top so you may need a periscope!
I tried the reflector system years ago (following a Ted Jordan article) and it worked quite well, but I haven't tried it lately with higher resolution gear and modern drivers.
The only way I know to get around the extreme toe-in (apart from the wheels) is to place the enclosures back to back and use reflectors. The TV would have to go on top so you may need a periscope!
I tried the reflector system years ago (following a Ted Jordan article) and it worked quite well, but I haven't tried it lately with higher resolution gear and modern drivers.
Thanks, you would've been most welcome.
A reflector... I had never thought of that. Ha, that's pretty intereting.
I know of one guy who placed his speakers side by side (both pointed forward, speakers just CM's apart) and placed a screen in the middle to create a complete seperation between the two channels. The listening seat is placed at the end of the screen, so that you get something like this when you're sitting in the seat: [speaker]||[speaker].
I've heard part of that system (not the speakers, but I did hear the turntable w/ diy tonearm, diy preamp/poweramp, and headphones), but some other people who have heard the speakers were wildly enthusiastic. That is, if you can manage to listen sitting in one spot all the time.
Guess there's more to speaker placement than the usual setup...
I don't mind the wheels though, it also allows me to space them farther apart which greatly improves the soundstage.
A reflector... I had never thought of that. Ha, that's pretty intereting.
I know of one guy who placed his speakers side by side (both pointed forward, speakers just CM's apart) and placed a screen in the middle to create a complete seperation between the two channels. The listening seat is placed at the end of the screen, so that you get something like this when you're sitting in the seat: [speaker]||[speaker].
I've heard part of that system (not the speakers, but I did hear the turntable w/ diy tonearm, diy preamp/poweramp, and headphones), but some other people who have heard the speakers were wildly enthusiastic. That is, if you can manage to listen sitting in one spot all the time.
Guess there's more to speaker placement than the usual setup...
I don't mind the wheels though, it also allows me to space them farther apart which greatly improves the soundstage.
Forgive me, for I have sinned.
Going to give them a bunch of hours over the next few days, and play with placement and the crossover before I can say much about it.
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An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Going to give them a bunch of hours over the next few days, and play with placement and the crossover before I can say much about it.
Have sinned some more:
Picking up the parts for a new crossover, 12dB/oct at 5kHz, tonight. Also picking up plenty resistors to play with the output level of the tweeter, which is too loud as it stands. I'm still on the edge about going with either 4kHz or 5kHz, but I found 3kHz much too low for my liking, so I'll try 5kHz first.
On the downside of things, I managed to melt my soldering iron yesterday so a need a new one of that too. On the upside, that was the only thing that has been destroyed since I started building these speakers.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Picking up the parts for a new crossover, 12dB/oct at 5kHz, tonight. Also picking up plenty resistors to play with the output level of the tweeter, which is too loud as it stands. I'm still on the edge about going with either 4kHz or 5kHz, but I found 3kHz much too low for my liking, so I'll try 5kHz first.
On the downside of things, I managed to melt my soldering iron yesterday so a need a new one of that too. On the upside, that was the only thing that has been destroyed since I started building these speakers.
hm said:
Horst,
I like the JX92s, and it's not a seriously expensive driver. I already had it, and had it working well and liking it a lot, so why would I go for a different unit? The tweeter is more of an expiriment than anything else. Just because I want to see if I can do something fun with it. I did not purchase the JX92s purely for this project.
I don't care much for "losing" the advantages of a single driver. Single driver speakers are fun and have advantages over two or three ways, but the same is true for the other way around. Two/three way speakers also have their advantages....
Also, I don't hear many complaints about other designs using the JX92s together with a tweeter.
Of course, Horst works with differential tuning as well, only he works with two drivers driving the two hornpaths. Doubling the driver expense and adding a bipole/dipole/omnipole effect. Whether that's desirable, is a matter of taste. I haven't built his horns, so I cannot comment. I have heard various Cornu designs, especially the spirals with the little Fostex units and they are simply superb.
Ivo, thanks!
They are still playing with a standard 2nd order crossover at 3kHz, using a POT-like level adjustment. I'm not entirely happy with this, as they tend to be slightly sibilant on some recordings. And if there is something I hate with a passion, it's sibilance.
Easiest way to fix this is running them fullrange again, but I'd miss the added detail in the highs (and there IS a serious improvement in the detail and sharpness in the highs when using the tweeter). Not willing to go back to fullrange (not with the JX92s anyhow, maybe some other drivers will fare better in the highs). I guess I'll have to play with the crossover. Work on the JLows is slow since they are my only good speakers, and I can't miss them. Without music, I go mad.
There are some other things I'm thinking about doing... I'm building a Flexy-rack this weekend to place all my audio gear in. That means that my TV stand will be empty, and that means that I could possibly swap it with a huge subwoofer.
It would be a sub of approximately 430 liters. But; that's for another topic at another time. I still need to "finish" the JLows, am also working on a DIY turntable and am planning some modifications to my poweramp (mainly consisting of taking out the preamp stage), so I have plenty of projects running at this point.
I have no real reason to build such a sub. However, you most likely know how it is with this hobby... if it can be done, it has to be done.
They are still playing with a standard 2nd order crossover at 3kHz, using a POT-like level adjustment. I'm not entirely happy with this, as they tend to be slightly sibilant on some recordings. And if there is something I hate with a passion, it's sibilance.
Easiest way to fix this is running them fullrange again, but I'd miss the added detail in the highs (and there IS a serious improvement in the detail and sharpness in the highs when using the tweeter). Not willing to go back to fullrange (not with the JX92s anyhow, maybe some other drivers will fare better in the highs). I guess I'll have to play with the crossover. Work on the JLows is slow since they are my only good speakers, and I can't miss them. Without music, I go mad.
There are some other things I'm thinking about doing... I'm building a Flexy-rack this weekend to place all my audio gear in. That means that my TV stand will be empty, and that means that I could possibly swap it with a huge subwoofer.
It would be a sub of approximately 430 liters. But; that's for another topic at another time. I still need to "finish" the JLows, am also working on a DIY turntable and am planning some modifications to my poweramp (mainly consisting of taking out the preamp stage), so I have plenty of projects running at this point.
I have no real reason to build such a sub. However, you most likely know how it is with this hobby... if it can be done, it has to be done.
Impressive!!Have you tried the traditional route that many follow with widerange and tweeters ; a first order crossover (ie a cap)on the tweeter only at about 18khz? (or around 1 uF)
Have you tried crossing them with 2nd order up high like at 12khz?
I am like you I think , that I like good high end, but it seems a shame to cross so low.
Have you tried crossing them with 2nd order up high like at 12khz?
I am like you I think , that I like good high end, but it seems a shame to cross so low.
Variac, no, I haven't yet. I have removed the crossover and am running them fullrange again on just the Jordans. The step back in the highs is much smaller than I initially expected. Imaging has actually improved and so have the mids. Sibilance has become less but isn't gone entirely.
When I first started using the tweeter, I'm afraid I fell for the 'new toy + lot of work = better sound' effect.
Running them fullrange, the highs are fine. They could use a tiny bit of sharper attack in say, high hats. Crossing over the tweeter at a much higher point does seem like a good idea this way. Will do this sometime in the next few days and report back.
When I first started using the tweeter, I'm afraid I fell for the 'new toy + lot of work = better sound' effect.
Running them fullrange, the highs are fine. They could use a tiny bit of sharper attack in say, high hats. Crossing over the tweeter at a much higher point does seem like a good idea this way. Will do this sometime in the next few days and report back.
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