After one year, they're finally finished. I have build two pairs of BIB's with Monacor SPH60 before and had some issues with too much mids coming out of the mouth. I decided to give them one more chance with different drivers.
These Sonido boxes predates the formula given by GM, so don't know if GM's would be different, but doubt it!
These Sonido's are much better in the mids and treble than Monacor's. And despite they're bigger the sweetspot is much larger, probably due to the phase plug.
These Sonido boxes predates the formula given by GM, so don't know if GM's would be different, but doubt it!
These Sonido's are much better in the mids and treble than Monacor's. And despite they're bigger the sweetspot is much larger, probably due to the phase plug.
The problem with mids are not so prominent as the old BIB's but still there. I have done extensive tests regarding damping and now I have the only option to put felt on the last half of pipe and see what's happening. Personally I don't expect any major change. This is a major flaw in the box which I can't accept.
I don't have measurments of this BUT a single pillow over the mouth solves the problem so no doubt about the problem.
My two microphones (read ears) tells me there are high output up to ~1100 hertz which disqualifies the box as a speaker.
I don't want one Ibanez guitar emitting sound out of phase at two places.
Now you wonder why this idiot write this? Because I'm stubborn and in my ignorance I expected to solve this problem, no way I say. Also, I don't listen so often over 85-90 db where it isn't much of a problem. You hear it more prominent over these levels.
Bang for the buck, yes, but not in the long run!
Be careful with anything emitting over 500 Hz in the ports/mouths
Peter
I don't have measurments of this BUT a single pillow over the mouth solves the problem so no doubt about the problem.
My two microphones (read ears) tells me there are high output up to ~1100 hertz which disqualifies the box as a speaker.
I don't want one Ibanez guitar emitting sound out of phase at two places.
Now you wonder why this idiot write this? Because I'm stubborn and in my ignorance I expected to solve this problem, no way I say. Also, I don't listen so often over 85-90 db where it isn't much of a problem. You hear it more prominent over these levels.
Bang for the buck, yes, but not in the long run!
Be careful with anything emitting over 500 Hz in the ports/mouths
Peter
Attachments
That'll be the gremlins then. They haunt the electronic waves, dressed as hippos in small green furry hats, and cause untold trouble, particularly to those who frequent audio boards. True you know. Every word. By the way, custard is made from gelignite.
178 BIB.
Line 128in
Zdriver 26.5in
Sl=76.375in^2
Scottmoose has attached this image:
Click the thumbnail to see the original image.
__________________
'When I was Controller, I had an excellent secretary. Whenever I asked for facts, he asked me what it was I wanted to prove! There is no doubt that facts can be most misleading.'
Admiral of the Fleet Sir John Fisher, First Baron of Kilverstone.
Last edited by Scottmoose on 10-11-2006 at 08:09 PM
These are the dims, and damping as follows:
Acousta above driver, hard in beguinning, looser down to driver, 8mm BAF behind driver + Acousta at the sides of driver. 3mm wool carpet at three sides down to bend. This has been tested to the extreme, does not get better than this.
Peter
178 BIB.
Line 128in
Zdriver 26.5in
Sl=76.375in^2
Scottmoose has attached this image:
Click the thumbnail to see the original image.
__________________
'When I was Controller, I had an excellent secretary. Whenever I asked for facts, he asked me what it was I wanted to prove! There is no doubt that facts can be most misleading.'
Admiral of the Fleet Sir John Fisher, First Baron of Kilverstone.
Last edited by Scottmoose on 10-11-2006 at 08:09 PM
These are the dims, and damping as follows:
Acousta above driver, hard in beguinning, looser down to driver, 8mm BAF behind driver + Acousta at the sides of driver. 3mm wool carpet at three sides down to bend. This has been tested to the extreme, does not get better than this.
Peter
The speakers look beautiful. Try stuffing the speaker differently to get rid of the the higher frequencies coming from the mouth of the BIB.
http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib-howtobuild.asp
Enjoy!
Godzilla
http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib-howtobuild.asp
Enjoy!
Godzilla
Thanks Godzilla!
Right now I'm really tired due to my daily work, so I will leave them as they are for the moment.
I've put in quite a lot of work on this pair. 38 wooden plugs are used in each speaker + silicon sealing on inside joints.
The only contact the black baffel have with the box, is two screws,
+a layer of duct seal take care of the remaining contact.
This was a test to see if the panel vibrations around the mouth disappear. My old BIB's have the same panel thickness and are also smaller. It seems to work, as vibrations are less on the duct sealed ones, but I would like to go even further and have the baffel screwed with a rubber bolt. We'll see about that later, maybe.
Right now I'm really tired due to my daily work, so I will leave them as they are for the moment.
I've put in quite a lot of work on this pair. 38 wooden plugs are used in each speaker + silicon sealing on inside joints.
The only contact the black baffel have with the box, is two screws,
+a layer of duct seal take care of the remaining contact.
This was a test to see if the panel vibrations around the mouth disappear. My old BIB's have the same panel thickness and are also smaller. It seems to work, as vibrations are less on the duct sealed ones, but I would like to go even further and have the baffel screwed with a rubber bolt. We'll see about that later, maybe.
Maybe it's just me but the felt pennant tweak has brought me more satisfaction with the BIB for 127e than I had at the beginning of listening to the BIB.
My interior treatments are stuffed peak, fiberfill on the bottom
and the pennant.
Also suggest that this be brought into the main BIB thread.
My interior treatments are stuffed peak, fiberfill on the bottom
and the pennant.
Also suggest that this be brought into the main BIB thread.
Scottmoose said:That last one -point, base & pennant is what I would consider the optimal damping for this type of pipe-horn. It really does work.
Why has there never been word of more usage of this? I certainly haven't seen it and thought I was the only one that did it.
As I recall, I first had the terminus end trimmed out four sides with
some thin pillow stuffing polyfill then went to the
pennant only.
Peter's build is very elegant. I'd like to see what kinds of these refinements develop.
For instance: pennant materials. I use billiard felt (got for free as a remnant at a retailer.) But GM who gave the original idea said that
a lighter material (maybe a foam or long strip of poly) would work better.
Again, please add this to the main BIB thread.
I'm in a better mood now This week I had meetings with the managers of the company I work in. The fools suggested that we sit back with the larger customers we have in East Europe 
Well, I can do that and we loose them, who's going to be blamed then? Got it out from my chest today and feel much better now
I've put felt on the sloping baffle this evening, a little better. I will try the pennant later in the week. I assume you mean a triangle shape with the point near bottom. Also should it be side-side or front-back wall.
Scott, I tested bass tracks this evening also, I got quite strong output at 30Hz while 40Hz was so overwhelming, that the cat and children ran out of the room
The problem here is that the Sonido's excite room nodes much more than Monacors. If I play 30Hz and move alittle to the right and left, it feels like eardrums are sucked in. The cancellation in certain places are huge. Also there is a dip around 60-80 Hz but this dip is even in the whole room. It makes me wonder if they should be a tad shorter, lets say around 1.4m. This is possible to do without any problems, technical speaking from wood working point of wiew.
It's just to cut them down from front, upper side walls, down backwards in a certain angle, that way one has the benefit of killing some ripple also.
Question then is, if more parameters change at the same time, there will be two lines with different lengths.
As I understand it, the load of the driver changes then?
I will leave boxes for now and let drivers settle in first then we'll see.
This week I had meetings with the managers of the company I work in. The fools suggested that we sit back with the larger customers we have in East Europe Well, I can do that and we loose them, who's going to be blamed then? Got it out from my chest today and feel much better now
I've put felt on the sloping baffle this evening, a little better. I will try the pennant later in the week. I assume you mean a triangle shape with the point near bottom. Also should it be side-side or front-back wall.
Scott, I tested bass tracks this evening also, I got quite strong output at 30Hz while 40Hz was so overwhelming, that the cat and children ran out of the room
The problem here is that the Sonido's excite room nodes much more than Monacors. If I play 30Hz and move alittle to the right and left, it feels like eardrums are sucked in. The cancellation in certain places are huge. Also there is a dip around 60-80 Hz but this dip is even in the whole room. It makes me wonder if they should be a tad shorter, lets say around 1.4m. This is possible to do without any problems, technical speaking from wood working point of wiew.
It's just to cut them down from front, upper side walls, down backwards in a certain angle, that way one has the benefit of killing some ripple also.
Question then is, if more parameters change at the same time, there will be two lines with different lengths.
As I understand it, the load of the driver changes then?
I will leave boxes for now and let drivers settle in first then we'll see.
loninappleton said:
Thanks loninappleton!
It will be done with underlay wool for parquet flooring. I'm currently throwing glances at my Tempur matrass. At 380 Euro/piece it would be a high end solution
But seriously, this material is so dead that when one hits it with the palm of ones hand, it doesn't sound at all.
Hmm, put it on a wall..... Wait, must sign the divorce papers first
peterbrorsson said:
It's triangular because it's inserted diagonally so that it damps both the width and depth planes.
A ~uniform dip throughout the room in this BW is normally caused by a ~ 8 ft high parallel floor/ceiling, so not much you can do about it short of a major room redecorating/renovation project.
Not really sure what you're asking in the last paragraph.
GM
[
Thanks!
I quote my self with small changes
It makes me wonder if the boxes should be a tad shorter, lets say around 1.4m. This is possible to do without any problems technical speaking from wood working point of wiew.
It's just to cut them down from front, upper side walls, down backwards in a certain angle, that way one has the benefit of killing some ripple also.
Question then is, there will be two lines with different lengths.
The beguinning of line will be longer than the second one.
Peter
Thanks!
I quote my self with small changes
It makes me wonder if the boxes should be a tad shorter, lets say around 1.4m. This is possible to do without any problems technical speaking from wood working point of wiew.
It's just to cut them down from front, upper side walls, down backwards in a certain angle, that way one has the benefit of killing some ripple also.
Question then is, there will be two lines with different lengths.
The beguinning of line will be longer than the second one.
Peter
It's all one line, not two. It just means the horn will be a little shorter, that's all. So I wouldn't worry about that.
Any progress to report on the pennant? And, out of interest, do the Monacors still kill the Sonido's in the bass? (and can you point me in the direction of someone who sells the latter?)
Any progress to report on the pennant? And, out of interest, do the Monacors still kill the Sonido's in the bass? (and can you point me in the direction of someone who sells the latter?)
Hi Scott!
Thanks for reply!
No progress regarding pennant, I have been travelling quite a lot lately. Will see if I can buy some felt tomorrow.
Regarding bass, Sonido's has gotten little bit fuller "down under"
but still leaner than Monacors. It could be an optimistic fs on Sonido's or they still need more massage. Guess it can be the low qts also, bit of rising response for sure. It's not as it's fatiguing exactly, but noticable. Over all, much better sound.
Regarding sales points, I guess it's easiest to contact Sonido directly or, ask Spectrum Audio in Germany.
You can call the owner of Sonido, Istvan Vargas, he speak's English.
+36 309 640 683
BTW, I made an experiment with turning them around. Tested with different heights, restricting the mouth etc.....
Even my wife said to give it up, the nearest description is un-musical bass. Hard and short bass, tones were not decaying normally + it got the floor vibrating. Noticable loss of low bass also. Makes me wonder about reflctions back up the pipe.
Regards,
Peter
Thanks for reply!
No progress regarding pennant, I have been travelling quite a lot lately. Will see if I can buy some felt tomorrow.
Regarding bass, Sonido's has gotten little bit fuller "down under"
but still leaner than Monacors. It could be an optimistic fs on Sonido's or they still need more massage. Guess it can be the low qts also, bit of rising response for sure. It's not as it's fatiguing exactly, but noticable. Over all, much better sound.
Regarding sales points, I guess it's easiest to contact Sonido directly or, ask Spectrum Audio in Germany.
You can call the owner of Sonido, Istvan Vargas, he speak's English.
+36 309 640 683
BTW, I made an experiment with turning them around. Tested with different heights, restricting the mouth etc.....
Even my wife said to give it up, the nearest description is un-musical bass. Hard and short bass, tones were not decaying normally + it got the floor vibrating. Noticable loss of low bass also. Makes me wonder about reflctions back up the pipe.
Regards,
Peter
Hi there,
IMHO the Sonido work best in the box design that comes with the drivers. I have heard them all in these cabinets and preferred the 144 and the 178 to the others as they went down lower subjectively and had the speed I am looking for in a fullrange driver,the big ones were either thin or too laid back for my taste. But they shook the room when I was there.
What was great about these drivers was that they convey a true sense of the recording's atmosphere-they sound big whit orchestra and intimate with studio recordings, very chameleon like, something that I have only heard in Lowthers. I am waiting for my Jordans from Brian which are an old love of mine and if I fail to get what I expect from them I will definitely get a Sonido pair. I just hope the Jordan is what I remember it was-coherent, full and musical. And I will do everything possible to make it work. Sorry for the last lines, I am just very excited, my point was-Sonido are fantastic for the price,it just takes some time to take out their best, DON'T give up.
IMHO the Sonido work best in the box design that comes with the drivers. I have heard them all in these cabinets and preferred the 144 and the 178 to the others as they went down lower subjectively and had the speed I am looking for in a fullrange driver,the big ones were either thin or too laid back for my taste. But they shook the room when I was there.
What was great about these drivers was that they convey a true sense of the recording's atmosphere-they sound big whit orchestra and intimate with studio recordings, very chameleon like, something that I have only heard in Lowthers. I am waiting for my Jordans from Brian which are an old love of mine and if I fail to get what I expect from them I will definitely get a Sonido pair. I just hope the Jordan is what I remember it was-coherent, full and musical. And I will do everything possible to make it work. Sorry for the last lines, I am just very excited, my point was-Sonido are fantastic for the price,it just takes some time to take out their best, DON'T give up.
Hi Ivan!
I will not give up and I will build Sonido's horn for sure. In general I'm really satisfied with 178, just noticing the difference between them. I had some contacts with one guy in Sweden who's building Sonido's horn with 144. Shall be interesting what he says about them.
I have only heard Jordans in their VTL, sounded really good!
Good luck,
Peter
I will not give up and I will build Sonido's horn for sure. In general I'm really satisfied with 178, just noticing the difference between them. I had some contacts with one guy in Sweden who's building Sonido's horn with 144. Shall be interesting what he says about them.
I have only heard Jordans in their VTL, sounded really good!
Good luck,
Peter
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