Audio Nirvana Super Cast 10" (New)

[rcdaniel]

Scott, by all means 'credit the real experts', but please do not underestimate the value of your own contributions. 'Nuff said.

Cheerio

 

[despotic931]

Cheers Tom. Impressive horn designs BTW -been meaning to mention them for a day or two. Nice work.



Hi Justin,

Good question in re the circuit & MLTL. It'll depend on your room, where you position them, and the character of the rest of your system (especially your amplifier) to be honest.

The box I outlined for the AN Super10 earlier, assuming 3/4in build material, is 15in wide externally, so step loss will occur at a relatively low frequency (-3db point at ~304Hz) which is approaching the point at which room-gain will start to kick in and flatten the response out. If they're near a rear wall or corners, you're unlikely to need a circuit to correct for step-loss, though you might want to add a notch-filter to flatten the naturally rising response of the driver out a bit if you find things a little bright sounding. If you have the boxes pulled out into the room, then you might like to experiment with a BSC circuit -a 1.6mH inductor paralleled with a 3ohm resistor should do the job. Adjust the level of HF attenuation by adjusting the value of the resistor.

Regarding BLH's, again, interesting question. Most tend to operate over a wider passband than a regular reflex cabinet, and you can get colourations / blurring of the midrange in badly designed cabinets. A well-designed one shouldn't have this issue; its simply a case that you don't want the horn operating up too high -about 300Hz, give or take, is about the limit.

In the case of the AN10in, given it's considerable size, my personal preference would be to either use it in an MLTL, or, a BVR type of cabinet (BR or MLTL with short horns, rather than a regular port-tube or slot). YMMV as always.

Thanks for the awesome reply Scott! If I were to put the AN10 into a MLTL I think I would also design and install a sort of selectable BSC circuit, almost like the CSA "Magic switch" used for their coaxial speaker cabinets. Out of curiosity what software do you use for your speaker designs? I would love to find some free drafting software to put on my Mac, and start drawing up my own designs, but I don't know how you calculate the step loss, etc.

-Justin

 

[Scottmoose]

Well, I use Martin King's MathCAD worksheets to provide graphs, but it's strictly a modelling programme only, it doesn't design a speaker / enclosure for you. That's done based on your own knowledge & experience.

WRT calculating baffle step loss, I provided two links you'll find useful in my previous response to that question -you'll find them near the top of the last page.

Unfortunately, I don't run a 'Mac, so I know very little about any available software for it, unless you emulate / run Windows on it, which gives more options. It would also depend on what you want: software that will design a box for you, or a modelling programme where you do the design work & simply simulate it to check the technical performance & make adjustments. The former is OK for basic BR, sealed etc designs, though you still have to know how to interpret the data; the latter is the only option, period, for more advanced / complicated cabinets -MLTLs, horns & the like.

 

[Harderror]

Thanks for the awesome reply Scott! If I were to put the AN10 into a MLTL I think I would also design and install a sort of selectable BSC circuit, almost like the CSA "Magic switch" used for their coaxial speaker cabinets. Out of curiosity what software do you use for your speaker designs? I would love to find some free drafting software to put on my Mac, and start drawing up my own designs, but I don't know how you calculate the step loss, etc.

-Justin

Many of us have started using Google Sketchup. It is accurate, versatile and easy to use. It is available on PC and Mac as well. It really can't be beat. If you look at all the SPQR designs I have done (model II and III) they were all drawn up and final images exported out of Google Sketchup.

Tom

 

[despotic931]

Well, I use Martin King's MathCAD worksheets to provide graphs, but it's strictly a modelling programme only, it doesn't design a speaker / enclosure for you. That's done based on your own knowledge & experience.

WRT calculating baffle step loss, I provided two links you'll find useful in my previous response to that question -you'll find them near the top of the last page.

Unfortunately, I don't run a 'Mac, so I know very little about any available software for it, unless you emulate / run Windows on it, which gives more options. It would also depend on what you want: software that will design a box for you, or a modelling programme where you do the design work & simply simulate it to check the technical performance & make adjustments. The former is OK for basic BR, sealed etc designs, though you still have to know how to interpret the data; the latter is the only option, period, for more advanced / complicated cabinets -MLTLs, horns & the like.

I'm not looking for something to design the enclosure, but rather too show me any problems that there may be with an enclosure I design. I know there isn't anything that is 100%, for example wasn't it the metronome that modeled rather poorly but sounds very good? I'm curious if there is any free modeling software available for my mac, hehe, it's great for my music production, but it does make searching for software a PITA! Thanks Scott!

Many of us have started using Google Sketchup. It is accurate, versatile and easy to use. It is available on PC and Mac as well. It really can't be beat. If you look at all the SPQR designs I have done (model II and III) they were all drawn up and final images exported out of Google Sketchup.

Tom

Thanks Tom, looks like I have something to download today!

-Justin

 

[Variac]

Just wanted to put in a good word and a "Thank You" to Mr. Moose. He has contributed so much to our forums here..

I have built many a BIB thanks to his support and enthusiasm..

Hmm speaking of which I guess a BIB for this driver would be pretty big... ?


Here's a guy who got one of the JX92S drivers in the recent group buy and - of course, making a BIB occured to him!

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=117845

 

[Scottmoose]

Many thanks -in all seriousness, I've felt very humbled by you guys support. I'm just glad I've been able to contribute a bit.

Yeah, those BIB's do get addictive don't they? OT -I've got a new pair for my 208ESigmas that are coming from Dan in the works. Planning on doubling the front with pineboard as I like the look. Maybe a nice lathe turned Cain & Cain style false baffle too. Not sure in what yet, though oak seems to be speaking to me.

Ahem. Sorry, just rabbiting on. Anyway, big is one way to put it for the Cast Frame 10in AN. Plugging in a 40Hz tuning frequency (so height is kept vaguely manageable) will give you a box 85in tall, with an internal CSA of 453in^2. Suggest 17 7/8in wide, x 25 3/8in deep (internal). Bet it'd sound pretty epic though. Anyone brave enough to go large? 10in FR unit, horn bass to the mid 20Hz regions. Can't be bad. 1/2 space FR:

 

[despotic931]

an 85" BIB? That would put the driver 42" off the ground, Hehe! I dunno how I would ever move them. There are way too many speakers and designs for a noob like me to absorb! I'm just going to build one of each...

 

[Harderror]

Many thanks -in all seriousness, I've felt very humbled by you guys support. I'm just glad I've been able to contribute a bit.

Yeah, those BIB's do get addictive don't they? OT -I've got a new pair for my 208ESigmas that are coming from Dan in the works. Planning on doubling the front with pineboard as I like the look. Maybe a nice lathe turned Cain & Cain style false baffle too. Not sure in what yet, though oak seems to be speaking to me.

Ahem. Sorry, just rabbiting on. Anyway, big is one way to put it for the Cast Frame 10in AN. Plugging in a 40Hz tuning frequency (so height is kept vaguely manageable) will give you a box 85in tall, with an internal CSA of 453in^2. Suggest 17 7/8in wide, x 25 3/8in deep (internal). Bet it'd sound pretty epic though. Anyone brave enough to go large? 10in FR unit, horn bass to the mid 20Hz regions. Can't be bad. 1/2 space FR:

Ha, Scott that is the problem I have been encountering with the 10" AN. The horn is just going to be huge. I am working out a way to not have a monster box and still reproduce 35Hz. It is coming, it is just taking time. To be honest, the first bunch of designs simmed like garbage. Frequencies just went nuts. Extending the length is dealing with that but like I said, huge is the word. I will have something soon though, soon.

Tom

 

[despotic931]

Problem is, David Dicks has a nasty habit of stuffing various drivers into generic cabinets neither designed nor properly optimised for them. For example, the smaller AN drivers are not, in fact, ideally suited to BR loading, whatever the claims made. It can do nothing about the rising response, no compensation is made for baffle step-loss, & the tuning is somewhat off, as shown in the plots above.

The 10in will work better in a box type cabinet than their smaller units. For e.g., this MLTL: internal dimensions 56in x 13.5in x 10.5in (HxWxD). Zdriver 21in, vent 3in diameter x 1in long. Line the top, back & one side wall from the top 45in down. Brace to suit, and it's a max-flat alignment, so adjust & damp to taste / your own room / system in practice.

Mkay, many thanks to Tom for pointing me towards Google Sketchup (btw I checked out your SPQR designs and they look excellent!). I sketched this up quick, just to make sure I was headed in the right direction and so I'm not misunderstanding what you mean by a MLTL. All the internal dimensions are as described, although I do not know what "Zdriver" meant. I also didn't know the exact placement of the port. I will also post another image with some dimensions on it. Much thanks Scott for your help!

Thanks, Justin

 

[despotic931]

and the dimensions...

 

[Scottmoose]

Zdriver = distance of driver-centre from the internal top. Sorry, forgot to mention the vent postion: centre 2.25in up from internal bottom.

 

[despotic931]

Awesome, thanks Scott! Looks like I have a project!

-Justin

 

[Scottmoose]

Nice CAD work. I'll be interested to hear your listening impressions...

The cabs will need bracing -can't remember if I mentioned it originally. Void-free BB ply prefered build material -something bracing the rear of the driver to the internal rear wall of the cabinet is useful; a couple of window braces would be good too.

 

[despotic931]

Thanks, it's been almost 3 years since I've done any CAD design, but google sketch is a piece of cake, and it started coming back to me very quickly. Through my high school years I aspired to be a drafter/engineer, but instead I fell in love with music and A/V production. It's kinda cool to be able to combine the two like this! I cannot explain how helpful this site has been so far, especially you Scott, it's hard not to learn when the answers come so easy! I'll sketch up some ideas for internal bracing and post them up. Although the project may have to wait for tax returns for funding. On another note, what is preferred, coupling your speakers (using spikes) or isolating them (using feet)?

 

[Scottmoose]

Whatever works for you & your room really, when you're tweaking things to your liking. Unfortunately, like most things audio, there's no one-size-fits-all solution. Spikes are generally a good starting point, but there are plenty of other things you can experiment with -granite / concrete plinths etc. I'd try them without anything at all to start off with and then experiment later.

 

[CMB]

Hi! My first post and it´s about lining and damping.

Scottmoose wrote: "The 10in will work better in a box type cabinet than their smaller units. For e.g., this MLTL: internal dimensions 56in x 13.5in x 10.5in (HxWxD). Zdriver 21in, vent 3in diameter x 1in long. Line the top, back & one side wall from the top 45in down. Brace to suit, and it's a max-flat alignment, so adjust & damp to taste / your own room / system in practice."

Does that mean that I should glue something like fiberglas house insulation or convoluted foam the specified walls, and then damp to taste with something like polyfill in the volume around the AN driver? If so, is 2-3" thickness of the lining ok? What is the approximate volume of the damping material (like polyfill) and how should that "volume" be placed inside the speaker?

This will be my first DIY speaker, and I thank you all in this forum for the great amount of information you share, and of course a special thanks to Scottmoose for sharing this design. But if it sounds bad I might come back and edit this post...

Regards,

Martin

 

[Beowolf]

Have anyone tried 10" in Metronome type box? I have built them a month ago, and must say, I'm a bit disappointed with bass output. Ill have to build a BSC to compensate. BUt, in mid's and highs there is much detail, and they look awesome!

 

[Scottmoose]

Hi! My first post and it´s about lining and damping.

Scottmoose wrote: "The 10in will work better in a box type cabinet than their smaller units. For e.g., this MLTL: internal dimensions 56in x 13.5in x 10.5in (HxWxD). Zdriver 21in, vent 3in diameter x 1in long. Line the top, back & one side wall from the top 45in down. Brace to suit, and it's a max-flat alignment, so adjust & damp to taste / your own room / system in practice."

Does that mean that I should glue something like fiberglas house insulation or convoluted foam the specified walls, and then damp to taste with something like polyfill in the volume around the AN driver? If so, is 2-3" thickness of the lining ok? What is the approximate volume of the damping material (like polyfill) and how should that "volume" be placed inside the speaker?

This will be my first DIY speaker, and I thank you all in this forum for the great amount of information you share, and of course a special thanks to Scottmoose for sharing this design. But if it sounds bad I might come back and edit this post...

Regards,

Martin

1in 'stiff' acoustic fiberglass or wool / cotton felt is fine for a starting point. Then adjust to taste / suit your room / system. Exactly how much is needed depends on the above, so only you can do the final tweaking, but that should get you fairly close.

 

[Scottmoose]

Have anyone tried 10" in Metronome type box? I have built them a month ago, and must say, I'm a bit disappointed with bass output. Ill have to build a BSC to compensate. BUt, in mid's and highs there is much detail, and they look awesome!

The Metronomes are intended primarily for near-wall use, so if they're pulled out a way then some compensation for step loss will be needed. Possibly more pertinently, many people have found that the rising response inherent to the driver needs addressing with a shelving filter.