Confusion from profusion - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Full Range

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 3rd January 2008, 09:23 PM   #1
diyAudio Member
 
JRKO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: U.K.
Send a message via AIM to JRKO
Default Confusion from profusion

Needing some cash to fund my growing photography habit/business I am reluctantly selling my 15" Tannoy DC's But this corner of the diyaudio site for full range speakers has got me thinking I can replace the lumps with something equally appealing.

I am sticking with a Trends TA10.1 so will need efficiency (which doesn't seem to be an issue)

The Demetri looks good but there does not seem to be a great deal on it on the site.

The Fonken looks great (small driver imaging and speed as well as top end clarity though 'maybe' lacking in the balls dept?) but I can't really stretch to a sub at the moment.

I play all sorts from trashy pop & rock for when I just want music to small scale jazz (ahmed jamal etc) and a whole range of classical when I listen.

I can sacrifice bass for imaging but as usual I want it all

Any ideas?
__________________
In the interests of full disclosure JRKO = James Rupert Kingsley Osborne. And yes, my parents will pay for it when I choose their retirement home
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd January 2008, 10:59 PM   #2
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: victoria BC
Default Re: Confusion from profusion

Quote:
Originally posted by JRKO
Needing some cash to fund my growing photography habit/business I am reluctantly selling my 15" Tannoy DC's But this corner of the diyaudio site for full range speakers has got me thinking I can replace the lumps with something equally appealing.

I am sticking with a Trends TA10.1 so will need efficiency (which doesn't seem to be an issue)

If you haven't already bought the amp, you might want to look at the Kingrex T20U - I've got one of each the Trends and Kingrex (both bone stock) - for me the Kingrex sounds substantially better than the Trends and the "U" model for $20 or so more includes a pretty decent sounding USB DAC - just plug in your laptop or PC and you're ready to rock.

Quote:

The Demetri looks good but there does not seem to be a great deal on it on the site.

not a tiny box - and wasted in small venue - sounds great with even "just" the FE167E, (should be absolutely killer with FE207E/FT17H ) definitely has more "balls" than either the Mileva or any member of the Fonken family

Quote:


The Fonken looks great (small driver imaging and speed as well as top end clarity though 'maybe' lacking in the balls dept?) but I can't really stretch to a sub at the moment.

I play all sorts from trashy pop & rock for when I just want music to small scale jazz (ahmed jamal etc) and a whole range of classical when I listen.

I can sacrifice bass for imaging but as usual I want it all

Any ideas?
the original Fonken is still my overall favorite for small rooms/moderate listening levels - if you're looking for subterannean bass and/or to blast Metallica at 110dB, I'd suggest you look elsewhere (Hawthorne Silver Iris 15" comes to mind)

Except for remaining limitations of maximum attainable levels, another alternative would be the combo of mFonken & dual active woofers.

Either Mileva and Brynn offer a bit more bass weight than Fonken, although at the sacrifice of articulation ("finesse") and imaging. I use a pair of Mileva for video (currently with a TA10.1) and with the additional visual element, the performance "sacrifice" isn't a an issue. In a big room, this is where the Demetri will really shine - except for crazy loud/deep you can probably forego the subs.


disclosure - after trying for several years, (not very hard ) I've completely abandoned the multichannel HT experience, and couldn't be happier with the arrangement (as is my wife)
__________________
you don't really believe everything you think, do you?
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com commercial site planet10-HiFi
  Reply With Quote
Old 3rd January 2008, 11:17 PM   #3
Nanook is offline Nanook  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Nanook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chinook Country.Alberta
Default Demetris and 41HzBasicAmp6

listening to these now with Hemp FR8 drivers. Very nice. If out in the room may need more bass for some (as all the Demetris would), so will benefit from BSC. If stuffed into the corners the mid-bass gets a little too much. Some have complained to me there seems to be a little more sparkle needed. I don't find that but the local Bass-head (the missus) would like a little more zing.
Thankfully panomaniac and Planet10 have addressed that ...look here


stew
__________________
stew -"A sane man in an insane world appears insane."
  Reply With Quote
Old 4th January 2008, 06:35 AM   #4
diyAudio Member
 
JRKO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: U.K.
Send a message via AIM to JRKO
Thanks for the replies guys.

My room is 'roughly' W 3.5m x L 4.75m x H 2.25m with a kitchen off one width via a door in the centre (actually doorway - currently no door!) and a hallway (that opens into a double bedroom on one side and bathroom on the other) off one of the long sides right up by the kitchen wall. Will this be big enough?

I will be listening across the room from the one unbroken long wall to the wall with the hall way off it. I thought that with the layout above and the doors open it will essentially act as one(ish) space?

The speakers will be almost against the long wall but in from the corners by about 0.5m.

The Fonken's look great and the articulation from the small driver as well as the control the amp will have on a small light driver sounds great. What sort of efficiency do they have in that cab?

The size of the Demetri is not a problem with my very significant other. I like the thought of the extra bottom end but worry about the top. You suggest adding a Fostex hf driver but will that stop the point source imaging or is it just for 'air/ambient fill? I am 30 so i guess my hearing is on its slow slide downwards

I listen mainly when the world has gone to bed and in the morning before my wife gets up so can't go too loud but still want the whole range. I assume imaging would be better with the smaller drivers?
__________________
In the interests of full disclosure JRKO = James Rupert Kingsley Osborne. And yes, my parents will pay for it when I choose their retirement home
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th January 2008, 07:15 AM   #5
diyAudio Member
 
JRKO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: U.K.
Send a message via AIM to JRKO
Default The Wall

How close can either the Demetri or the Mileva be used with a wall?

'She Who MUST Be Obeyed' has redesigned our living room (it does look very nice) and the speakers WILL now be firing down the length of the room towards the kitchen.

In between them there is a square bay window. Will this go some way to offsetting the against wall placement and fairly close proximity to corners (0.50m from middle of the driver)?

This is going to sound lumpy as hell now, with a midrange thats the aural consistency of custard isn't it?

Would a smaller driver help? Maybe the Mileva with a fe127e.

I could get a Behringer something or other to bash the life out of the sound and MAKE it work
__________________
In the interests of full disclosure JRKO = James Rupert Kingsley Osborne. And yes, my parents will pay for it when I choose their retirement home
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th January 2008, 08:10 AM   #6
diyAudio Member
 
JRKO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: U.K.
Send a message via AIM to JRKO
Default FT17H

Nanook recomended using an FT17H horn tweeter to assist the upper frq.

How would they be connected up? Would a second T10 be a good idea to drive them actively because from what I remember from electronics at school whatever I put inline to prevent low frq. going to the tweets will reduce the efficiency overall quite dramatically.
__________________
In the interests of full disclosure JRKO = James Rupert Kingsley Osborne. And yes, my parents will pay for it when I choose their retirement home
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th January 2008, 09:10 AM   #7
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator
 
planet10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III
Blog Entries: 5
Demetri & Mileva were designed specifically to be up close to a wall. EnABLing the box should get rid of the issue Stew has with then too close.

dave
__________________
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th January 2008, 09:28 AM   #8
Nanook is offline Nanook  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Nanook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Chinook Country.Alberta
Default recommended tweeter....

I suggested that an add on tweeter may be to some folks' taste (my nephew the drummer has complained that the last bit of "sparkle" is missing from the Hemps in the Demetri enclosure--without baffle step. With BSC the highs seem to have become more extended as well as the bass. My local bass head has given her approval). I personally don't feel the need for a tweeter. No specific recommendation was made regarding a tweeter, but a Fostex would make sense. A little closer to the rear wall (about 1-1.25 meters, right now with BSC) and I think they may very well actually hit the low 40Hz range or maybe even high 30s! Of course I presently have no way of proving that.

As far as EnABLing the enclosures (and drivers), I simply don't have personal experience to draw upon. I will say that, to me, the EnABLing process does make a lot of sense. It is not "snake oil". I'm just kinda chicken...

Although rooting around my basement I did happen to find a really nice set of Speedball nibs and a couple of handles (I actually used to be able to draw freehand in ink, but alas I have given it up). And I did go and buy some Speedball ink. And I do have an assortment of acrylic paint kicking around too, so one never knows when I'll get up the nerve (having seen dave wield a hobby knife fearlessly and devour some dust caps with it, I know I may not be of the same ilk as he)...

Regarding a Behringer something or other---the more you have to muck with electronics an equalizing, the further you are from the music. Just a thought. chris and dave have personal experience with the Milevas, I don't except for a very brief listen.


stew
__________________
stew -"A sane man in an insane world appears insane."
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th January 2008, 10:47 AM   #9
diyAudio Member
 
Scottmoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: UK
An FT17 capped off at your choice of frequency (suggest 10 - 12KHz) & with the levels dialed in to taste with an Lpad should be good. Couple of options too -you could go front or rear mounted (the latter would depend on how close to a rear wall you went of course & if you like the ambient sound). Its a nice little unit in my experience... looking forward to hearing how an EnABLed version compares.

Stew -I'd get the pens out. You've got the talent there, so it should be a doddle for you. My 167s will finally get the treatment this month. I might see if I can damp the cones a bit too while I'm at it.
__________________
Community site www.frugal-horn.com Commercial site www.wodendesign.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 6th January 2008, 11:38 AM   #10
diyAudio Member
 
JRKO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: U.K.
Send a message via AIM to JRKO
Default Oops

Sorry Nanook, it was Chris who noted the FT17H I'm going senile and mixing you guys up!

I am used to big Tannoy's which have a centrally mounted HF unit. How does the treble from a full ranger unit compare?

Will the 8" units struggle to spread the stage in front of me due to their size and be bettered by the 127s? ChrisB said 'Either Mileva and Brynn offer a bit more bass weight than Fonken, although at the sacrifice of articulation ("finesse") and imaging'

If the smaller drivers really are better for 'realism', I have a couple of unused amps (Quad 99 80wpc and Jungson 80wpc Class A) that would be ok for sub duties at a later date. I read somewhere about an 8" driver Planet10 was looking at for Fonken support.

I blame ChrisB, Planet10 & Scottmoose for producing too many good designs
__________________
In the interests of full disclosure JRKO = James Rupert Kingsley Osborne. And yes, my parents will pay for it when I choose their retirement home
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Kit Confusion! deadparrot Chip Amps 6 28th May 2009 08:52 PM
mox confusion cowanrg Solid State 10 9th August 2005 11:11 AM
More(l) confusion mr_push_pull Multi-Way 2 29th May 2005 04:54 PM
I2S confusion MWP Digital Source 2 9th November 2002 10:36 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:56 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2