Planet10 has alot more expertise that I do about drivers and cabs. However I have to (partially) disagree with some of his statements. First while he's right that to
I should note that the recommendations that I made considered Chirpie's stated newbie status, price point, desire for a simple design, small size, and other requirements provided. I think its a little early to be pointing him to consider driver mods such as EnABL etc. - give him a chance to get into it! I still think going wih a published design based on substantial driver testing and a well documented filter and cabinet design is the best way to for a newbie to begin. Speakers are systems that include the driver(s), cab, and filter(s).
I have the Fostex FE103E, Fostex FE126E, Fostex FE167 fullranges; HiVi B3N drivers, the Hawhorne Silver Iris, and various tweeters and helper woofers. The best midrange I've heard is from the HiVi B3N.
- doing this is a combined art/science and almost always means you have to permanently mechanically change the driver. If you screw up there's no going back. [Or you can buy the modified drivers from Planet10!]. Mark McKenzie seems to have stopped publishing his fixes for driver resonance issues.
I should note that the recommendations that I made considered Chirpie's stated newbie status, price point, desire for a simple design, small size, and other requirements provided. I think its a little early to be pointing him to consider driver mods such as EnABL etc. - give him a chance to get into it! I still think going wih a published design based on substantial driver testing and a well documented filter and cabinet design is the best way to for a newbie to begin. Speakers are systems that include the driver(s), cab, and filter(s).
I have the Fostex FE103E, Fostex FE126E, Fostex FE167 fullranges; HiVi B3N drivers, the Hawhorne Silver Iris, and various tweeters and helper woofers. The best midrange I've heard is from the HiVi B3N.
holdent said:
Well, at chirpie's stated budget of $40-60 each, there are several Fostex drivers that could certainly work well enough (even stock) in an enclosure of this size - the prime candidate would be the FE127E.
by the time you consider the materials and labour involved in high quality paint finish of MDF cabinets, and not to mention the stands, the extra cost of fully EnABL treated drivers isn't all that much.
As any recent customers for the Planet10 modded drivers could attest (many being members of this forum), Dave has a pretty good handle on the art/science involved in the EnABL process.
holdent said:
This is true, but my point is that a filter is a bandaid that doesn't stop the bleeding. It can help, but it won't fix the problem, only cover it up a bit. At the same time it adds its own negatives.
But these aren't full-ranges. They have to be considered as mid-tweeters.
dave
Dave:
We could also debate the "sweet spot" for driver size! I personally think you need to get in into the FE167E (6") or bigger to get adequate bass response but these drivers start exceeding the price max. Maybe the Pioneer B20FU20-51FW with a helper tweeter (the Dayton ND16FA-6?) is a better choice. Put it in a simple BR to keep the size small and the parts costs come in under the FE127E. The bonus for this driver is that if you like the sound you can later use the FE207E as a drop-in upgrade.
Ted
Agreed - when I mentioned these drivers earlier I noted that they really needed a subwoofer.
We could also debate the "sweet spot" for driver size! I personally think you need to get in into the FE167E (6") or bigger to get adequate bass response but these drivers start exceeding the price max. Maybe the Pioneer B20FU20-51FW with a helper tweeter (the Dayton ND16FA-6?) is a better choice. Put it in a simple BR to keep the size small and the parts costs come in under the FE127E. The bonus for this driver is that if you like the sound you can later use the FE207E as a drop-in upgrade.
Ted
holdent said:
And you know, you really don't have to go with anything big either. Remember, he stated that he would not be turning things up to earthshattering volumes, so a nice sub using an 8" driver should more than fill the bill. And there are a lot to choose from too.
And as for power, that nice little 70 watt sub amp at PE is what I use on my 8" subwoofer for my computer setup. It more than does an adequate job for a fairly decent size MBR.
Holy cow guys, you're hardcore. (meant as a compliment)
I'll eventually get through this thread and reply to all comments but for now I'll throw out a thank you to everyone.
Reading reviews from other DIYers who had posted comments on Parts Express, I had decided to drop the originally considered TB 1337A driver in favor of the suggested TB W4-1320SD driver. (More mellow sound)
I remodeled with the new driver specs and they (no surprise) came out almost identical.
I then went about tearing apart the 3D model to see what kind of cuts it would take to create this odd shape.
Wow, it was time consuming! (Re: More than 5 hours) LOL
There's a lot of angle cuts to get it to fit correctly. There's a good chance that my tools aren't even as precise as the measurements I came up with but we'll see.
I rebuilt all of the measurements in Illustrator at actual size. (see .pdf link)
http://www.kchtenthusiasts.com/web_pics/hui_k/combined.pdf
I haven't put in the brace design yet, and the driver and port cut outs haven't been added yet either. Heck, neither is the plinth. I think I'll go back and recheck everything, because there's a LOT of little gotchas to these angles.
Don't worry guys if this doesn't blow my socks off. Since I'm a visual guy by nature, I'm almost as interested in it's visual as much as anything else, so a box speaker kit would be a bummer of a compromise. ^_^
I have a dedicated theater room that I built last year for my serious listening anyway.
http://www.kchtenthusiasts.com/web_pics/ht_pics/3v.jpg
http://www.kchtenthusiasts.com/web_pics/ht_pics/3o.jpg
http://www.kchtenthusiasts.com/web_pics/ht_pics/3w.jpg
http://www.kchtenthusiasts.com/web_pics/ht_pics/3m.jpg
I'll eventually get through this thread and reply to all comments but for now I'll throw out a thank you to everyone.
Reading reviews from other DIYers who had posted comments on Parts Express, I had decided to drop the originally considered TB 1337A driver in favor of the suggested TB W4-1320SD driver. (More mellow sound)
I remodeled with the new driver specs and they (no surprise) came out almost identical.
I then went about tearing apart the 3D model to see what kind of cuts it would take to create this odd shape.
Wow, it was time consuming! (Re: More than 5 hours) LOL
There's a lot of angle cuts to get it to fit correctly. There's a good chance that my tools aren't even as precise as the measurements I came up with but we'll see.
I rebuilt all of the measurements in Illustrator at actual size. (see .pdf link)
http://www.kchtenthusiasts.com/web_pics/hui_k/combined.pdf
I haven't put in the brace design yet, and the driver and port cut outs haven't been added yet either. Heck, neither is the plinth. I think I'll go back and recheck everything, because there's a LOT of little gotchas to these angles.
Don't worry guys if this doesn't blow my socks off. Since I'm a visual guy by nature, I'm almost as interested in it's visual as much as anything else, so a box speaker kit would be a bummer of a compromise. ^_^
I have a dedicated theater room that I built last year for my serious listening anyway.
http://www.kchtenthusiasts.com/web_pics/ht_pics/3v.jpg
http://www.kchtenthusiasts.com/web_pics/ht_pics/3o.jpg
http://www.kchtenthusiasts.com/web_pics/ht_pics/3w.jpg
http://www.kchtenthusiasts.com/web_pics/ht_pics/3m.jpg
If you have a table saw, you can experiment with the cuts. That is what I did with the hexagon cabinets I am in the pricess of making now. You just fool around with spare pieces of lumber, or plywood, and keep playing with the angles until you get them correct. and then you apply those angles to the final product.
Well, actually you will probably have to to it more than once, but you will learn as you go. In order to get the cuts just right for a six sided cabinet, I just kept playing with pieces of lumber until I got a small cross section right. Then I made a cross section in real size to make certain that things worked correctly. Then, and only then, did I know which was the right way to go.
Well, actually you will probably have to to it more than once, but you will learn as you go. In order to get the cuts just right for a six sided cabinet, I just kept playing with pieces of lumber until I got a small cross section right. Then I made a cross section in real size to make certain that things worked correctly. Then, and only then, did I know which was the right way to go.
MJL21193 said:
Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post (and sorry if I am) but are you saying the pictures are fake?
If you like, you can find my theater build in the AVS forum archives. (It's called Cinema Midwest) I'm also the owner of Kansas City Home Theater Enthusiasts. That's where I hosted the pictures. I can post pictures of the construction if that would help.
Like I said, I'm probably just misunderstanding the post. Peace!
MJL21193 said:
It's cool. I'll just take it as a compliment to the rendering skills instead.
Here's a shot where it's easier to tell.
http://www.kchtenthusiasts.com/web_pics/ht_pics/3k.jpg
MJL21193 said:
That's where they put me, when I've been especially bad.
EDIT: BTW Nice speaker build.
I'll bet you spend a good deal of time there, don't you?
You can go over there and contribute. It will help keep the thread current, and give me a chance to talk to a larger audience. I still have questions that need answering.
OK, I promised I haven't drifted away into obscurity.
I'll have some progress to update soon but I have a question. (And I promised I searched around first ^_^)
- Where can I find a good looking screw? (don't laugh, I'm serious ^_^)
Also, what size of screw should I be looking at? The driver specs on the PDF are garbled on the mm size of the hole...
I was guessing somewhere in the vicinity of a #6 or #8.
Appreciate all the feedback and help everyone.
I'll have some progress to update soon but I have a question. (And I promised I searched around first ^_^)
- Where can I find a good looking screw? (don't laugh, I'm serious ^_^)
Also, what size of screw should I be looking at? The driver specs on the PDF are garbled on the mm size of the hole...
I was guessing somewhere in the vicinity of a #6 or #8.
Appreciate all the feedback and help everyone.
here's a fine Canadian screw....
Robertson screws
been around forever (at least north of the 49th)
A Torx or "hex" head (Allen head), from McMaster and Carr . Can use flat head wood types or socket cap types. Brass sounds better than almost anything else so if available use them if you're serious.
Also check any local boat repair shops...
stew
Robertson screws
been around forever (at least north of the 49th)
A Torx or "hex" head (Allen head), from McMaster and Carr . Can use flat head wood types or socket cap types. Brass sounds better than almost anything else so if available use them if you're serious.
Also check any local boat repair shops...
stew
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