I have used it in the past when I bought a bottle to try. It does seem to "stay put" a lot better than the regular Titebond type one or two which I usually use.
I also use this which is quite good. If you don't get a good edge it will seal minor gaps.
http://www.liquidnails.com/ViewProductDetails.do?productId=42 liquid nails
I also use this which is quite good. If you don't get a good edge it will seal minor gaps.
http://www.liquidnails.com/ViewProductDetails.do?productId=42 liquid nails
loninappleton said:
On the topic of Gel glue, I've never been a fan of it, I just don't it, no real hard evidence as to why I don't use it other than personal preference.
To me when it is 'evaporating' as you put it, into the endgrain that is how it forms a strong bond. When it soaks into the endgrain it is getting more than just a surface bond to hold the joint.
I've never had any problems with Titebond II, (I'm not a fan of Titebond III) but my policy of glueing is that if it doesn't squeeze out from the edge all the way around, you don't have enough glue. I put glue evenly spred on both sides of the joint that I'm gluing, then clamp and have yet to have a proper glue joint fail.
On the topic of glue, since it is the season of cold, don't let your woodglue freeze, it won't be good after it freezes and thaws, I've wasted more than one bottle from forgeting it in the shop and leaving for the evening.
*Edit* On the topic of liquid nails, it can be used for caulking, but it is NOT a wood glue, so please don't replace it for a good wood glue.
It is sold as an adhesive but I sucessfully used it to build a pair of jerico horns in 2001 and they are still together
I would agree it is not as strong as e.g. tightbond which (with a proper joint) is about as strong as the wood itself.
On the subject of adhesives and glues, I would not recommend those "poly" glues e.g. Gorilla Glue. I find they don't hold anywhere near as well as regular wood glue and are a pain to clean up. Certainly don't use it in a e.g. dovetail or similar joint where you need the moisture from the glue to help pull the joint together.
Thats my experience.
Yes, for anyone who hasn't used Gorilla glue or the Borden clone it foams at the edges after sitting for a while so you have watch it forever and then wipe off the excess.
I think I'll use the usual Titebond knockoff I normally do from Bordens called Professional Woodworkers glue.
I've prepared my edges with a homemade wide sanding block about 2 feet long. This is a great tool for leveling the edge surface of the Harvey and all its pieces. You just take your 1x2 or whatever cutoff you have, cut the paper, spread glue on the receiving surface and sandwich a press board over and clamp. I make mine 2 sided on scraps.
Since the remaining edges are on the up side and ready to receive the
last side panel, buttering both surfaces is next to impossible without a runny mess.
That's why I wondered about the gel.
When I made the BIB I used a caul across the whole diagonal length with alternating shims at the center to get enough pressure to make contact plus corner clamps etc. The BIB turned out fine.
I think I'll use the usual Titebond knockoff I normally do from Bordens called Professional Woodworkers glue.
I've prepared my edges with a homemade wide sanding block about 2 feet long. This is a great tool for leveling the edge surface of the Harvey and all its pieces. You just take your 1x2 or whatever cutoff you have, cut the paper, spread glue on the receiving surface and sandwich a press board over and clamp. I make mine 2 sided on scraps.
Since the remaining edges are on the up side and ready to receive the
last side panel, buttering both surfaces is next to impossible without a runny mess.
That's why I wondered about the gel.
When I made the BIB I used a caul across the whole diagonal length with alternating shims at the center to get enough pressure to make contact plus corner clamps etc. The BIB turned out fine.
Andrewbee said:
A proper wood glue joint is stronger than the wood.
If any of you have not seen this article, I suggest you read it.
http://www.audiojunkies.com/blog/346/wood-glue-showdown
Yes I had seen the FWW piece as well. Those usually show the glue yanking out a piece of wood rather than separating from the bond.
I've used Dap Kwik Seal clear caulk to put the BIB together. I do this in case I want to take the thing apart for a tweak.
This is the other option for the Harvey: caulk holds a bead, dries firm but not brittle. I consider this good for speaker seal and have used it over and over again. I'm fence sitting on using this method with the Harvey.
In case you think a butt joint of caulk on MDF or particle board doesn't hold, I spent a good amount of time trying to get a box separated that I considered temporary. I used a wide putty knife blade and
a hammer and chopped away for 15 minutes before it came loose.
I've used Dap Kwik Seal clear caulk to put the BIB together. I do this in case I want to take the thing apart for a tweak.
This is the other option for the Harvey: caulk holds a bead, dries firm but not brittle. I consider this good for speaker seal and have used it over and over again. I'm fence sitting on using this method with the Harvey.
In case you think a butt joint of caulk on MDF or particle board doesn't hold, I spent a good amount of time trying to get a box separated that I considered temporary. I used a wide putty knife blade and
a hammer and chopped away for 15 minutes before it came loose.
Thanks for the responses on this topic.
I slept on it and had a nice long soak to think it over.
The Gorilla glue would solve most of the assembly problems because it expands in the joint and is brittle enough to break out if the build does not work out. Initial listening tests on the Harvey indicated that my build had a long way to go to contain frequency in the BR and not have it leak out the throats.
I'm going to make some experiments on how easily a joint with GG separates (knocks out) and also how well it fills in an edge assembly to full panel piece.
I slept on it and had a nice long soak to think it over.
The Gorilla glue would solve most of the assembly problems because it expands in the joint and is brittle enough to break out if the build does not work out. Initial listening tests on the Harvey indicated that my build had a long way to go to contain frequency in the BR and not have it leak out the throats.
I'm going to make some experiments on how easily a joint with GG separates (knocks out) and also how well it fills in an edge assembly to full panel piece.
Well, I've seen Gorilla Glue behave and that's why I'd glue up a few scraps first. I've seen all the squeeze out from the chemical reaction with the water after, you know, you think the squeeze out is over with.
My cutter has mostly dead flat cuts. I've seen his blade and watched the setup on the table saw. Over long lengths and with a small basement setup is where some problems can come in. Plus less than perfect stock. I can always revert to the standard wood glue and appreciate your warnings.
Even though we did all the dimensions in one pass to avoid variations I can still see small amounts of daylight at the seam. Clamping will pull most of it together.
So there's a couple of fall-back solutions. The trouble with making one-off projects is you only get one chance. This is not production work.
My cutter has mostly dead flat cuts. I've seen his blade and watched the setup on the table saw. Over long lengths and with a small basement setup is where some problems can come in. Plus less than perfect stock. I can always revert to the standard wood glue and appreciate your warnings.
Even though we did all the dimensions in one pass to avoid variations I can still see small amounts of daylight at the seam. Clamping will pull most of it together.
So there's a couple of fall-back solutions. The trouble with making one-off projects is you only get one chance. This is not production work.
loninappleton said:
I am not 100% certain of what you want to achieve, but I think it is you want a glue joint that fills gaps, and doesn't run. If this isn't the case, then I'll go back to hiding
Epoxy mixed with wood flour will do this. In fact, I believe this will be the strongest way to achieve this. You can get epoxy in various formulas that set up in 5 minutes, 45 minutes or 3 hours (or something like that) Rockler, for one, sells the stuff.
Well, I've never cooked glue but I know the procedure.
I could be just over-reacting to the amount of 'leakage' I heard with a dry clamp job to do some tests.
As to epoxy-- too much hassle. And any joints would have to be cut away if I decide to take it down. I'm making one only of the Harvey v 1.1. Then compare it with the BIB.
Maybe I don't know what to expect from a BVR but the initial test was not encouraging. The hollowness heard in the BVR means that everything is going out the throat instead of just the LF. The BIB is well under control with the felt pennant tweak suggested by GM.
I could be just over-reacting to the amount of 'leakage' I heard with a dry clamp job to do some tests.
As to epoxy-- too much hassle. And any joints would have to be cut away if I decide to take it down. I'm making one only of the Harvey v 1.1. Then compare it with the BIB.
Maybe I don't know what to expect from a BVR but the initial test was not encouraging. The hollowness heard in the BVR means that everything is going out the throat instead of just the LF. The BIB is well under control with the felt pennant tweak suggested by GM.
knock, knock, Who's there?
Since I never know how long I'm going to keep stuff, I like to
keep the long wood surfaces free of holes. A glue seal will work. The big concern is squeeze out and runs from gravity.
When the last side goes on, I should be able to do the knock test at the small BR chamber and not hear too much.
Since I never know how long I'm going to keep stuff, I like to
keep the long wood surfaces free of holes. A glue seal will work. The big concern is squeeze out and runs from gravity.
When the last side goes on, I should be able to do the knock test at the small BR chamber and not hear too much.
Please cross post
Please cross-post this over to the Harvey builders thread.
It is a good tip.
Only one active in the Harvey builders thread has been me and my woes.
This is still the gluing thread and I *had* to glue something so I redid one of my small boxes and added the small braces to the Harvey on the glued side which is done.
The small box I used up a tube end of the Kwik Seal caulk.
That stuff handles well gives time to clean up squeeze out and dries clear as regular carpenters glue.
I feel it also makes the best acoustic seal I can do.
But, since it's like rubber cement (with more holding power than rubber cement) removal is more problematic. With carpenters glue, joints can be knocked out and scraped clean.
The Harvey has only Elmer's/Borden Probond carpenters wood glue on it.
Handling the last piece is like putting a lid on a casket... and in more ways than one: you're committed once the contact is made.
The best glue applicators I've found is business cards. But I should really get a box of blank ones!
Please cross-post this over to the Harvey builders thread.
It is a good tip.
Only one active in the Harvey builders thread has been me and my woes.
This is still the gluing thread and I *had* to glue something so I redid one of my small boxes and added the small braces to the Harvey on the glued side which is done.
The small box I used up a tube end of the Kwik Seal caulk.
That stuff handles well gives time to clean up squeeze out and dries clear as regular carpenters glue.
I feel it also makes the best acoustic seal I can do.
But, since it's like rubber cement (with more holding power than rubber cement) removal is more problematic. With carpenters glue, joints can be knocked out and scraped clean.
The Harvey has only Elmer's/Borden Probond carpenters wood glue on it.
Handling the last piece is like putting a lid on a casket... and in more ways than one: you're committed once the contact is made.
The best glue applicators I've found is business cards. But I should really get a box of blank ones!
The easiest way I've found to clean up excess wood glue is wait about an hour or so to where the glue is partly dry (boards will still be clamped), but yet it is tacky enough to just scrape off cleanly. If you scrape it before its fully dry you can get almost everything off with minimal effort.
The best glue applicator I've found would be my finger, but to each their own.
The best glue applicator I've found would be my finger, but to each their own.
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