There's Arta and Speaker Workshop (what I use). Not sure about Arta, but there's quite a learning curve with SW and you need to gear up on your own. Mic, mic pre-amp and the testing jig are needed. Test jig needs to be build.
Calibrating this setup will make the surface of your brain itchy. I was begging for mercy after a day or two of trying to make it function properly.
I am clinically insane now, so I can work it perfectly.
Soundeasy sounds...easier
Calibrating this setup will make the surface of your brain itchy. I was begging for mercy after a day or two of trying to make it function properly.
I am clinically insane now, so I can work it perfectly.
Soundeasy sounds...easier
John L said:
Fuzzmeasure relies heavily on Core Audio built into OS X and on the programming interface that OS X inherited from NeXT Step. A port to Linux or Windows would take at least 10x the work (if possible at all) and as we are talking about 1 guy with a more than full time day job just pushing forward the Mac version is hard enuff... If there was a Linux or Windows version the development & support costs would go up enuff that it would be cheaper to just go out and buy a Mac (which BTW is happening at a huge rate... the market growth of the Mac is growing at at least 4x the rate of the industry avaerage and accelerating -- a majority of this growth is people abandoning Windows. That the new Intel machines, and virtualization sw like parallels and VMWare, make the Macintosh the best platform to run Windows on these days does not hurt at all either). For sometime the Mac has been the top laptop choice of Linux geeks,
And given that an average Mac has a useful lifetime twice that of a Windows machine and starts out comparably priced to a similar quality PC, they are considerably cheaper now-a-days.
</macevangelism>
dave
Today I picked up some magnets. So this evening I took out the phase plug and drilled two holes into the bottom of the plug.
And here are the holes filled with the magnets.
I tried them on the speaker, and they set very nicely. My only negative thought was that I perhaps should have drilled three holes and inserted three magnets for extra hold. As you can see, it would have been easy for me to have done three. Perhaps I will do that when I redo the PPs.
Anyway, everything is working well. Now, the biggest hurtle is that of turning the four diffusion lense parts. Perhaps next week on that. But I still have other things to do til then.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
And here are the holes filled with the magnets.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I tried them on the speaker, and they set very nicely. My only negative thought was that I perhaps should have drilled three holes and inserted three magnets for extra hold. As you can see, it would have been easy for me to have done three. Perhaps I will do that when I redo the PPs.
Anyway, everything is working well. Now, the biggest hurtle is that of turning the four diffusion lense parts. Perhaps next week on that. But I still have other things to do til then.
I reported on my beginning B20 mods here in the already established B20 driver thread
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1417319#post1417319
It might be nice to split some of these posts just about the driver to there too. That thread was established to discuss the driver and mods to it only, so that members will get all the info available. Now mods that relate only to this speaker in this thread should stay here- any objections?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1417319#post1417319
It might be nice to split some of these posts just about the driver to there too. That thread was established to discuss the driver and mods to it only, so that members will get all the info available. Now mods that relate only to this speaker in this thread should stay here- any objections?
John, Dave , Variac, Et Al .....
1st off, thanks so much for tutorial John. Excellent work, great ideas and many pre- thought problems solved right here.
Apologies if I missed answers to my queries as there is so much info on B20 and hard to keep it all sorted.
These Oaktons I referred to in my CSS driver post are made the same way as the B20 with mods - tweet mounted in voice coil. I have a 2nd set that is simply an FR with a whizzer that I've played with by adding an Onkyo tweet that I got at P.E.'s buy out price. I'll buy 2 of anything that costs 20 cents!
Different drivers but same principles.
I can't detect an audible difference between the 2 on A-B testing. Although I like the mod itself as well as appearance this has me wondering if any measurable comparisons have been done as to difference with tweet added as a mod (a basic coax) or the tweet mounted separately ? The mod is not that extensive but if there is no advantage ( I understand with Johns application) other than cosmetics why bother? The questions posed as to tweeter effecting FR's motor in this configuration also fuel this question.
Bluto
1st off, thanks so much for tutorial John. Excellent work, great ideas and many pre- thought problems solved right here.
Apologies if I missed answers to my queries as there is so much info on B20 and hard to keep it all sorted.
These Oaktons I referred to in my CSS driver post are made the same way as the B20 with mods - tweet mounted in voice coil. I have a 2nd set that is simply an FR with a whizzer that I've played with by adding an Onkyo tweet that I got at P.E.'s buy out price. I'll buy 2 of anything that costs 20 cents!
Different drivers but same principles.
I can't detect an audible difference between the 2 on A-B testing. Although I like the mod itself as well as appearance this has me wondering if any measurable comparisons have been done as to difference with tweet added as a mod (a basic coax) or the tweet mounted separately ? The mod is not that extensive but if there is no advantage ( I understand with Johns application) other than cosmetics why bother? The questions posed as to tweeter effecting FR's motor in this configuration also fuel this question.
Bluto
Bluto said:
Bluto, I can't definitively answer your question here, because I lack the necessary equipment and expertise to accurately test an A/B comparrison. And as you state, I have a more utalitarian motive here, in that I am limited in the space where to mount the tweeter.
It would be nice to see an accurate graph of the two, side by side, along with all the modifications rendered to one set.
I would also like to see just what an "enabled" driver really does in comparrison to the 'stock' driver.
As I have stated elsewhere, once I complete this project, I am going to do another one, with modifications. I haven't decided yet whether to set a 12" low end driver, firing from the bottom of the enclosure, or look until I locate the perfect 12" to go along wigh a compression horn, and mount it in the up firing position.
If I pursue the former, I will most likely keep the B20/tweet combination on top, and use the B20 for mid/bass duty.
Now, If I can just get an opening with my instructor, so I can finish those diffraction lenses, and complete this thing. I'll probably add to this thread with the next project.
John L -
Isn't it fascinating what all has been done with that B20? I'd been intrigued by it for a long time, met Dave via Ebay while I was unaware of this site who advised me to check it out.
My only testing equipment is my ears but I'm certain someone will test if it hasn't already been done.
Interesting thoughts regarding your planned 2nd project as part of reason for my question was my thoughts were running in the same direction but I had thought of using the other Pio or the Dayton DC200 for low end . Wondered if it would be beneficial to eliminate extra space needed on baffle for mounting tweet. I've been playing with something similiar to what MisterTwister is doing using multiples of NSB's and Polk 5.25" from their Monitor 60 design and little tweets. I think that MT's design with the 2 drivers as you describe would sound plenty full.
I'm pretty excited after hearing what these Oakton's can do and must believe based upon all thats been said the B20 would even sound better. Right now I'm running the Oaktons with a Tandy 8" 'supposed' Sub driver and the way the 2 integrated really surprised me. Not sure what I'll end up with for enclosure but nice to know B20's will fit when I'm ready to upgrade.
By all means keep thread alive, it's both interesting and informative.
Thanks - Bluto
Isn't it fascinating what all has been done with that B20? I'd been intrigued by it for a long time, met Dave via Ebay while I was unaware of this site who advised me to check it out.
My only testing equipment is my ears but I'm certain someone will test if it hasn't already been done.
Interesting thoughts regarding your planned 2nd project as part of reason for my question was my thoughts were running in the same direction but I had thought of using the other Pio or the Dayton DC200 for low end . Wondered if it would be beneficial to eliminate extra space needed on baffle for mounting tweet. I've been playing with something similiar to what MisterTwister is doing using multiples of NSB's and Polk 5.25" from their Monitor 60 design and little tweets. I think that MT's design with the 2 drivers as you describe would sound plenty full.
I'm pretty excited after hearing what these Oakton's can do and must believe based upon all thats been said the B20 would even sound better. Right now I'm running the Oaktons with a Tandy 8" 'supposed' Sub driver and the way the 2 integrated really surprised me. Not sure what I'll end up with for enclosure but nice to know B20's will fit when I'm ready to upgrade.
By all means keep thread alive, it's both interesting and informative.
Thanks - Bluto
Hi
does anyone know the crossover details of the Duevel speakers say like the Jupiter? I suspect the Xover frequency is between mid and tweet is VERY low, requiring a tweeter that can be crossed over VERY low, are such special tweeters available for DIY? I have a unused diffuser floating around that I would like to use in surround speakers - its similar shape to the Duevels.
does anyone know the crossover details of the Duevel speakers say like the Jupiter? I suspect the Xover frequency is between mid and tweet is VERY low, requiring a tweeter that can be crossed over VERY low, are such special tweeters available for DIY? I have a unused diffuser floating around that I would like to use in surround speakers - its similar shape to the Duevels.
mattIlikesound said:
Have you checked out their site? I haven't been there for a little over a month now, and I see that they have discontinued the Jupitor, and the Sirius is slated to replace it. It is a Real Looker, and I bet it cost over $25,000 per pair.
I'm glad you resurrected this thread, as I have been negligent of late in forging ahead with the project. My lathe instructor has not been all that keen about the idea of dulling his tools again. It would be nice to finally get this project finished, so I can give them a serious listen.
The crossover for the Venus will be higher than with the Jupiter, because it is using an 8" driver, and not a 12". 8" drivers have a higher ceiling and can afford to crossover higher. The added advantage is that you have a wider selection of tweaters available.
Have you gone through this thread yet? I have a lot of pictures and also have made modifications to the 8" Pioneer B20 that I am using. The B20 is pretty much a cult driver around here, due to it's low price, great sound, and flexibility. That is why I can use a cheap tweater along with it.
The only shortcoming is that it only has a true efficiency of about 90db, so it is not nearly as efficient as the much more expensive drivers costing $100 and more.
Have you gone through this thread yet? I have a lot of pictures and also have made modifications to the 8" Pioneer B20 that I am using. The B20 is pretty much a cult driver around here, due to it's low price, great sound, and flexibility. That is why I can use a cheap tweater along with it.
The only shortcoming is that it only has a true efficiency of about 90db, so it is not nearly as efficient as the much more expensive drivers costing $100 and more.
I'm way, way too late with this John, but hopefully it may assist someone else drilling a magnet.
I used to repair thousands of handheld 2-way radios, Iron ore is big business in this part of the world and it loves speakers when you drop the radio in the dirt. They just keep turning the volume up until it is a packed mass banging against the grille.
My secret weapon for removing iron from speakers is: a screwdriver.
the iron prefers to stick to the screwdriver instead of the magnet. I remember being taught about it in high school physics but I can't remember why.
I have a cheap chromed steel handle screwdriver that seems to work better than others. shaft diameter is about 1/8th. Just touch a bit of iron with the screwdriver and it comes away with the top. Pinch it away off the screwdriver with your fingers and wipe your hand on your trousers - not a rag on the bench, you don't want iron filings getting back in the speaker
for the final clean-up you over-knead some blu-tac till it starts sticking to your fingers, and use a blob of that on a stick to pat the area. then throw the blu-tac away. post-it note (yellow sticky notes) or magic-tape works almost as well.
and to stop phase plugs wandering: Use blue dots. or equvalent, these are used to stick photographs in scrapbooks. they are small spots of non setting adhesive you put on the back of the picture then press the picture against the page. If you get the ones suitable for archival use they should last a long time.
Warning, the plug will not move sideways with these, so you need to roll the plug up in some paper, stick the roll if paper in the hole then push the phase plug back against the magnet with a finger or pencil.
If you mis-align the plug and can't grip it use 2 bits of scotch magic-tape tape to make a handle (the ordinary office sticky tape that has a frosted look, not clear).
I used to repair thousands of handheld 2-way radios, Iron ore is big business in this part of the world and it loves speakers when you drop the radio in the dirt. They just keep turning the volume up until it is a packed mass banging against the grille.
My secret weapon for removing iron from speakers is: a screwdriver.
the iron prefers to stick to the screwdriver instead of the magnet. I remember being taught about it in high school physics but I can't remember why.
I have a cheap chromed steel handle screwdriver that seems to work better than others. shaft diameter is about 1/8th. Just touch a bit of iron with the screwdriver and it comes away with the top. Pinch it away off the screwdriver with your fingers and wipe your hand on your trousers - not a rag on the bench, you don't want iron filings getting back in the speaker
for the final clean-up you over-knead some blu-tac till it starts sticking to your fingers, and use a blob of that on a stick to pat the area. then throw the blu-tac away. post-it note (yellow sticky notes) or magic-tape works almost as well.
and to stop phase plugs wandering: Use blue dots. or equvalent, these are used to stick photographs in scrapbooks. they are small spots of non setting adhesive you put on the back of the picture then press the picture against the page. If you get the ones suitable for archival use they should last a long time.
Warning, the plug will not move sideways with these, so you need to roll the plug up in some paper, stick the roll if paper in the hole then push the phase plug back against the magnet with a finger or pencil.
If you mis-align the plug and can't grip it use 2 bits of scotch magic-tape tape to make a handle (the ordinary office sticky tape that has a frosted look, not clear).
Hi,
I apologise, my last posts were abit confusing, I mixed up some of the names of the Duevel speakers.
Its good to see keen people regarding omnispeakers,
I have a diffuser that is very similar to the Duevel Venus, I'm interested in using it in a second attempt at making a omni speaker. my first attempt suffered bad colouration so I abandoned it.
I'd be interested to know what the Xover frequency is on the Venus, I suspect that maybe a low X'over is required between the mid and tweet in order to avoid colouration between the midwoofer and diffuser, say maybe around 1kHz?? And hence with the lower Xover a bigger tweeter is required to handle the extension?? I could be wrong though..I found a scanspeak 1 1/2 inch dome tweeter that might work, other people on the forum have also suggested horn tweeters..
I apologise, my last posts were abit confusing, I mixed up some of the names of the Duevel speakers.
Its good to see keen people regarding omnispeakers,
I have a diffuser that is very similar to the Duevel Venus, I'm interested in using it in a second attempt at making a omni speaker. my first attempt suffered bad colouration so I abandoned it.
I'd be interested to know what the Xover frequency is on the Venus, I suspect that maybe a low X'over is required between the mid and tweet in order to avoid colouration between the midwoofer and diffuser, say maybe around 1kHz?? And hence with the lower Xover a bigger tweeter is required to handle the extension?? I could be wrong though..I found a scanspeak 1 1/2 inch dome tweeter that might work, other people on the forum have also suggested horn tweeters..
mightym said:
Yes, I finally got off my Keester, and have found the solution to the reflector problem. I'll go into it in detail, either tonight or tomorrow, but here is a picture of what I have been doing.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Instead of using wood, I finally got around to doing it in ceramics. I had to get on a waiting list, in order to take an introductory ceramics class at the community craft center. It's a requirement for Everyone, regardles their experience in ceramics. I wound up missing one by a couple of days, and just waited around until the September class began. Now that the six week class is over, I have 1 year studio privileges, which means I can use the studio, including potters wheel, anytime there is an open spot and no classes.
The bottom of the diffraction horn is my second attempt at it. I'll go over the trials and mistakes I made with the first one, when I post next.
Anyway, I'm back on track again, and expect to finish the project before I get lazy again.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Godzilla said:
It won't be all that heavy. I'm only going to make one sample of each half of the horn. Once I get it smooth, I'm going to build a mold frame, then mix and pour Hydrocal plaster into the frame. When it cures, I'll break the wooden frame apart and turn it upside down.
To make the lenses, I will pour high temperature slip into the mold, let it set for about 7 minutes. The slip in contact with the mold will start transfering moisture to the mold, and it will harden up. When it reaches a certain thickness, I'll pour out the liquid part in the middle. After the slip dries, I will turn it over and the slip finished part will come loose. If I spray the plaster with Pam, it will come loose easily.
From there, I'll glue the two parts together, and finish the seams. All the holes will be drilled and ready for the length of threadall that will go from top of the lense to the main frame. After that, the lady at the craft center will bisque fire the pieces, and then send them through the high fire process, where the ceramic lense will be very hard and sturdy.
When you see commercially poured slip pottery, you are looking at low fire slip. it is less expensive, but is not as sturdy as the more expensive high fire slip. These will be fired at around cone eight, somewhere around 2200degrees. The low fire ceramics you see in the stores are fired at temps whose numbers are prefaced with a "0" in front. The link above will show you a temperature cone chart, which will explain things better.
Anyway, when it is fired and allowed to cool, I will just spray paint it with a black gloss or semi-gloss. I won't be going with a high fire glaze on these, because it is not needed.
That's just an outline of things I need to do. I'll get back with you guys later with more pictures too.
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