I am looking at the Metronome Fostex FE207e but the BSC and zobel network drops the efficiency of the speaker. I am hoping to find a design in the +95db range. The Metronome Audio Nirvana 10" comes close. I noticed the Lowther's but they are out of my range. Anyway any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Thanks
I will be driving them with a 5 to 6 watt SET DHT. I am basing my needs off of reading this http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/sets.html and the loudspeakers section here http://www.welbornelabs.com/etmreview.htm
Right now I am using a set of Tannoy Sytem 800 http://www.tannoy-speakers.com/s.php?product=160&title=System+800&s=40 that have a sensitivity of 92db and am not really happy with them. They sound good but distort at higher level when the amp starts to run out.
For the price I will probably build the fonken and see how I like them then go from there.
Right now I am using a set of Tannoy Sytem 800 http://www.tannoy-speakers.com/s.php?product=160&title=System+800&s=40 that have a sensitivity of 92db and am not really happy with them. They sound good but distort at higher level when the amp starts to run out.
For the price I will probably build the fonken and see how I like them then go from there.
If you're really looking for the sensitivity, one nice thing about FR designs is that you can do whatever filtering (BSC, zoebel, notch, whatever) actively, but you don't need more amps. It'd take a little more work but it would save the sensitivity, right?
There are resources on the net for doing this sort of thing. I haven't tried to build an active analog circuit to do it, but I am running a convolution filter on the computer I use as a source. Sounds much nicer than the basic speaker-level notch filter I built.
There are resources on the net for doing this sort of thing. I haven't tried to build an active analog circuit to do it, but I am running a convolution filter on the computer I use as a source. Sounds much nicer than the basic speaker-level notch filter I built.
not REALLY needed.
I think if you read into the comments on the Welbourne site, the suggestion is
95 dB + for multiway speakers. Anytime a single driver using no circuits at all (unless passive), can be employed, 92 dB should sound "as loud" as a 95dB multiway--FRs are not as reactive as crossover'd, BSC'd, Zobel'd, and present a very easy load. Consider the Decware 84C amp, 2 watts/channel. My head-banging bro is using some of planet 10's modified FE167 drivers in a ported box. They play plenty loud enough for him, in a 15' X 20' room.
I think if you read into the comments on the Welbourne site, the suggestion is
95 dB + for multiway speakers. Anytime a single driver using no circuits at all (unless passive), can be employed, 92 dB should sound "as loud" as a 95dB multiway--FRs are not as reactive as crossover'd, BSC'd, Zobel'd, and present a very easy load. Consider the Decware 84C amp, 2 watts/channel. My head-banging bro is using some of planet 10's modified FE167 drivers in a ported box. They play plenty loud enough for him, in a 15' X 20' room.
tinitus said:
Not as much of a conversation piece as the 'nomes, but certainly not requiring BSC with the 207, would be the Demetri.
If you really think it needs a tweeter, the FT17H and a simple 1st order hi-pass filter around 8-10K(or to taste) & L-pad would be a good starting point.
And if you haven't already purchased drivers, and still consider every dB of sensitivity important, then the FF225K should be on your short list as well.
>>> the FF225K should be on your short list as well.
That driver in a BIB is supposed to sound tremendous! I would consider that plus a powerful powered sub for a high eff speaker system. Add a helper tweeter of choice and you should have a wonderful system (with or without the sub).
Godzilla
That driver in a BIB is supposed to sound tremendous! I would consider that plus a powerful powered sub for a high eff speaker system. Add a helper tweeter of choice and you should have a wonderful system (with or without the sub).
Godzilla
It does. I built a pair for a friend a couple of years back -raw MDF (he painted them white & added tweeters) and they throw a huge, smooth soundstage that just flows. Think 165 but everything seems bigger & more relaxed, and you're spot on. They don't go as loud as cleanly as, say, the 206 as excursion is low, but they stand up to the load better than a sim would suggest, and like their smaller brother, they overload quite nicely -distortion builds gradually, rather than shifting from fine to terrible like a switch has been flicked. They just sound enjoyable, and that's always a good thing.
Re: not REALLY needed.
Good stuff guys, Thanks.
Still think I may build the Fonken's just to get a feel of what fullrange is about. Now I need to decide on the standmount or floorstander. Although something is telling me to just go with the Metronome FE167e or FE207e. Having so many to chose from makes it tough.
Good stuff guys, Thanks.
Still think I may build the Fonken's just to get a feel of what fullrange is about. Now I need to decide on the standmount or floorstander. Although something is telling me to just go with the Metronome FE167e or FE207e. Having so many to chose from makes it tough.
the Fonkens...
I have nothing to gain by suggesting this.
I lived with a pair of Fonkens for a month or so while I was doing a review for Affordable$$Audio .
with planet10's un-ENABLd (as in regular modded drivers), the Fonkens made some very serious music with a 41Hz amp6 Basic.
I have no experience with the floorstanders.
I do have a little experience with the Demetris (using a Hemp Acoustics FR8c in each box). If the Fostex drivers sound half as good as the Hemps, then it's a no-brainer (and they do). Also consider the Milevas, chrisb has a pair and they sure are cute little buggers using the FE127. I'm sure by now chris n' dave have put some FE126ENs into the enclosures.
And know this: in no way will you be "settling" for an inferior speaker. Within the confines of their size they really do play almost every type of music very well.
I have nothing to gain by suggesting this.
I lived with a pair of Fonkens for a month or so while I was doing a review for Affordable$$Audio .
with planet10's un-ENABLd (as in regular modded drivers), the Fonkens made some very serious music with a 41Hz amp6 Basic.
I have no experience with the floorstanders.
I do have a little experience with the Demetris (using a Hemp Acoustics FR8c in each box). If the Fostex drivers sound half as good as the Hemps, then it's a no-brainer (and they do). Also consider the Milevas, chrisb has a pair and they sure are cute little buggers using the FE127. I'm sure by now chris n' dave have put some FE126ENs into the enclosures.
And know this: in no way will you be "settling" for an inferior speaker. Within the confines of their size they really do play almost every type of music very well.
Re: the Fonkens...
Actually, FE127eN in the Milevas for the downstairs (2.0) video system, with a Trends T-amp - the extra BS / channels and synthetic sound field of the 5.1 is a thankfully distant memory. Still playing around with FE126eN, FF125KeN, andFE127eN in the Brynn, and the latter 2 in Fonken cabinets.
If it wasn't for serious room limitations, I'd have forged ahead with one of the bipole Fonken designs, but by the time a certain kitchen project is completed, I might try something simpler, like an OB.
Nanook said:
Actually, FE127eN in the Milevas for the downstairs (2.0) video system, with a Trends T-amp - the extra BS / channels and synthetic sound field of the 5.1 is a thankfully distant memory. Still playing around with FE126eN, FF125KeN, andFE127eN in the Brynn, and the latter 2 in Fonken cabinets.
If it wasn't for serious room limitations, I'd have forged ahead with one of the bipole Fonken designs, but by the time a certain kitchen project is completed, I might try something simpler, like an OB.
Hi,
if 92db/m speakers cannot be played at your required volume (SPL) setting then adding another 3db by using 95db/m speakers is hardly gong to change much.
I would be tempted to try matching >=100db/m speakers to your 6W amps, if you want more realistic levels that don't start to break up on the transients.
The suggestion that active BSC solves the problem forgets this will send an EQ signal to the amplifier resulting in bass frequency gain being higher than the remainder of the frequency range. This will demand more power from the amp and more excursion from the Voice Coil. The result is that you have to listen at lower levels to avoid overloading in the bass range.
if 92db/m speakers cannot be played at your required volume (SPL) setting then adding another 3db by using 95db/m speakers is hardly gong to change much.
I would be tempted to try matching >=100db/m speakers to your 6W amps, if you want more realistic levels that don't start to break up on the transients.
The suggestion that active BSC solves the problem forgets this will send an EQ signal to the amplifier resulting in bass frequency gain being higher than the remainder of the frequency range. This will demand more power from the amp and more excursion from the Voice Coil. The result is that you have to listen at lower levels to avoid overloading in the bass range.
AndrewT said:
Errr, at the risk of jacking the thread...
The more I think about this, the more I think you're right. Since you've obviously seen further than me on this one, may I check my thoughts with you? (or whoever would like to contribute)
The speaker-level filter would have some resistive losses that wouldn't be present with the line-level. This would help... mmmmaybe just a little bit? Also the load would be simpler for the amp. It kinda depends on how sensitive the amp is to this sort of thing, but would it be maybe a bit more important than the resistive loss, but still mostly a little deal. (as far as efficiencty goes, sound quality would be a different discussion)
I had thought that while the amp would have to kick out more bass, at least it wouldn't have to worry about the spectrum above the baffle step. But A) the baffle step might be high enough that it's really most of the energy anyway, and 2) How much filtering action from the speaker level filter is dissipative in filter components and how much is it just presenting no (reduced) load to the amp?
Well, resisters get hot, but capacitors don't seem to (unless something has gone wrong). I'm not sure if coils get hot.In conclusion, I'd have to say that I don't know what I'm talking about. Maybe someone could straighten me out? Please speak to my "I've had one analog electronics course in college a few years back" mentality.
Thx
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