Jim's design and the Parts Express 0.25 ft³ cabinet have the same front baffle dimensions - 12" H x 7.5" W. However the PE cabinet's volume is 25% larger - 536 in³ vs. 432 in³.
What effect would the larger volume have if I were to use the PE cabinets? Generally larger cabinets mean more bass. Specifically, would I need to adjust any of the crossover values to compensate in some way?
I guess I could always fill in the cabinet a bit (more bracing), but I wanted to hear others opinions.
What effect would the larger volume have if I were to use the PE cabinets? Generally larger cabinets mean more bass. Specifically, would I need to adjust any of the crossover values to compensate in some way?
I guess I could always fill in the cabinet a bit (more bracing), but I wanted to hear others opinions.
Wow!!! 
I finished cutting the holes in the baffles last weekend and mounted the drivers. I did have one semi-disaster that I'm still kicking myself about. While preparing to mount the tweeter I dropped it on the Jordan.
Dented the dust cover and there is a slight dent in the cone.
My crossovers are not complete so I just hooked up the JX92S and left the G2si disconnected. Upon initial listening I cannot hear any difference between the drivers. I am very surprised about how big a sound stage these speakers throw. My room is pretty small (12x14 feet) so it doesn't take much to fill the room. However, the speakers are able to convey the size of the recording space really well.
However, after listening for about 30 minutes I am suffering from fatigue. The high frequencies are fairly harsh. Again, these have no break-in what so ever. I'm hoping that giving them some time will mellow them out a bit.
Also, I have them hooked up to my Denon receiver using a Oppo DVD player as my source. It could be that the amp and dvd combination is the issue. I'll let you know how things proceed.
I finished cutting the holes in the baffles last weekend and mounted the drivers. I did have one semi-disaster that I'm still kicking myself about. While preparing to mount the tweeter I dropped it on the Jordan.
Dented the dust cover and there is a slight dent in the cone.My crossovers are not complete so I just hooked up the JX92S and left the G2si disconnected. Upon initial listening I cannot hear any difference between the drivers. I am very surprised about how big a sound stage these speakers throw. My room is pretty small (12x14 feet) so it doesn't take much to fill the room. However, the speakers are able to convey the size of the recording space really well.
However, after listening for about 30 minutes I am suffering from fatigue. The high frequencies are fairly harsh. Again, these have no break-in what so ever. I'm hoping that giving them some time will mellow them out a bit.
Also, I have them hooked up to my Denon receiver using a Oppo DVD player as my source. It could be that the amp and dvd combination is the issue. I'll let you know how things proceed.
Bluegti,
If you wish to listen to just the JX92S speaker without the ribbon and crossover for a few days, let me suggest a baffle step compensation circuit for you. Take a 4 ohms resistor (10 watts or so power handling) and a 1.5 mH inductor and connect them in parallel (you'll need one of these circuits for each speaker in the pair). Then place that circuit in series with the positive lead to each driver and listen. What this circuit does is to reduce the upper frequencies by 3 dB which will cure the fatigue. The drivers will loosen up a bit as you use them but the baffle step circuit is needed regardless. The crossover has baffle step built in so you don't have to worry about the above circuit except when the JX92S is used alone.
The slight increase in box volume will not impact the crossover at all. You'll have a slightly lower bass output with the larger volume.
Enjoy,
Jim
If you wish to listen to just the JX92S speaker without the ribbon and crossover for a few days, let me suggest a baffle step compensation circuit for you. Take a 4 ohms resistor (10 watts or so power handling) and a 1.5 mH inductor and connect them in parallel (you'll need one of these circuits for each speaker in the pair). Then place that circuit in series with the positive lead to each driver and listen. What this circuit does is to reduce the upper frequencies by 3 dB which will cure the fatigue. The drivers will loosen up a bit as you use them but the baffle step circuit is needed regardless. The crossover has baffle step built in so you don't have to worry about the above circuit except when the JX92S is used alone.
The slight increase in box volume will not impact the crossover at all. You'll have a slightly lower bass output with the larger volume.
Enjoy,
Jim
Arghh. I keep posting about the need to protect the drivers as you work with them - just a screw can cause a dent. Been there, done that. Sorry to hear about the accident but you may find it has little effect on the sound. It's just that you KNOW it's there ...
When you work with them further, make a cardboard mask, the same diameter as the driver chassis, and cut out holes for the screws/bolts so you can fix everything in place before removing the mask. Oh and start thinking of some protection for in use. I use a pair of perspex circles which attach to the driver fixing bolts by magnets, removing them for listening (unless I want everything to sound like it comes off a 78rpm record). I got mine from www.markaudio.com but he doesn't have them listed on his site so they may have been samples.
Re the harsh sound, first make sure they are turned in correctly. They need to cross well in front of the listening position for the best imaging and sound. Second, Jim's baffle step will help a lot. I used to prefer my Jordan MLTLs without but ten minutes with Ted Jordan and the CORRECT baffle step sorted that. The sound is a lot rounder.
When you have the ribbons connected, the sound will be different again, I'm sure. Be sure and report back.
It may be worth trying another amp, if you can borrow one. I found the JX92 and the Sonic-T is a horrible match, for example, and was glad I had something else on hand to run them.
Have fun.
BTW, there's no real consensus on whether the drivers need break in. Ted says not (he's measured them on spec out of the box) and I haven't found any need but others quote up to 50 hours. I suspect it's the ears that get accostomed.
When you work with them further, make a cardboard mask, the same diameter as the driver chassis, and cut out holes for the screws/bolts so you can fix everything in place before removing the mask. Oh and start thinking of some protection for in use. I use a pair of perspex circles which attach to the driver fixing bolts by magnets, removing them for listening (unless I want everything to sound like it comes off a 78rpm record). I got mine from www.markaudio.com but he doesn't have them listed on his site so they may have been samples.
Re the harsh sound, first make sure they are turned in correctly. They need to cross well in front of the listening position for the best imaging and sound. Second, Jim's baffle step will help a lot. I used to prefer my Jordan MLTLs without but ten minutes with Ted Jordan and the CORRECT baffle step sorted that. The sound is a lot rounder.
When you have the ribbons connected, the sound will be different again, I'm sure. Be sure and report back.
It may be worth trying another amp, if you can borrow one. I found the JX92 and the Sonic-T is a horrible match, for example, and was glad I had something else on hand to run them.
Have fun.
BTW, there's no real consensus on whether the drivers need break in. Ted says not (he's measured them on spec out of the box) and I haven't found any need but others quote up to 50 hours. I suspect it's the ears that get accostomed.
I have the crossovers completed
I completed the crossovers and installed them now. What a difference. All the grain is gone. These things sound so smooth and fill the room in an amazing way. The sound seems to be coming from a much larger space than my 12 by 14 room.
I'm using them with a Sonic Impact amp. Colin doesn't like the combination, but the sound is so much better with the crossovers that I'm not really finding any faults right now. I'm looking forward to hearing them once I get my amp project finished (a diytube st-35).
I completed the crossovers and installed them now. What a difference. All the grain is gone. These things sound so smooth and fill the room in an amazing way. The sound seems to be coming from a much larger space than my 12 by 14 room.
I'm using them with a Sonic Impact amp. Colin doesn't like the combination, but the sound is so much better with the crossovers that I'm not really finding any faults right now. I'm looking forward to hearing them once I get my amp project finished (a diytube st-35).
Hi,
I have JX92Ss in Ronnie Thackerys' Jordan Lean Monitor (approx 6"x6"x36") transmission line cab. Using the infamous Panasonic SA XR55 for power. After 1000 hrs, my ears have broken in nicely and I get 40hz up in room. Ted did good...I am sure Jims design modded for the PE box will be fine...might suggest changing amps, though.
Ronnies design might be the finest HT speaker in existence, YMMV. I have not heard Jim's MLTL but methinks it should be tried...and heard.
t
I have JX92Ss in Ronnie Thackerys' Jordan Lean Monitor (approx 6"x6"x36") transmission line cab. Using the infamous Panasonic SA XR55 for power. After 1000 hrs, my ears have broken in nicely and I get 40hz up in room. Ted did good...I am sure Jims design modded for the PE box will be fine...might suggest changing amps, though.
Ronnies design might be the finest HT speaker in existence, YMMV. I have not heard Jim's MLTL but methinks it should be tried...and heard.
t
Hi - Looking at the design it probably sounds similar to the Jordan VTL, but probably leaner in the upper bass due to the narrower cabinet. If that is the case, the GM's 48 MLTL goes lower, giving an added weight to bass lines. Both sound very good but the MLTL needs BSC to maintain a full sound. So you trade sensitivity for lower bass.
Hi Colin,
I am sure you are correct. The placement against the wall helps to compensate for no bsc (and keeps them from being so accessible to my 4.5 yr old). He (Ronnie Thackery) makes a wider baffle model as well, similar no doubt, to the one on Teds site. It does bass a bit lower. I was just suggesting a WAF and child friendly design using the JX92S. I use a small sub xo-ed at 40hz for LF augmentation. Other designs I have tried were not acceptable to wife and others were dangerous around my daughter. These seem to fill my sonic needs and work well with my familial constraints...so while I dream of fancier, better designs, these are playing very acceptably in my real-world situation.
regards, t
I am sure you are correct. The placement against the wall helps to compensate for no bsc (and keeps them from being so accessible to my 4.5 yr old). He (Ronnie Thackery) makes a wider baffle model as well, similar no doubt, to the one on Teds site. It does bass a bit lower. I was just suggesting a WAF and child friendly design using the JX92S. I use a small sub xo-ed at 40hz for LF augmentation. Other designs I have tried were not acceptable to wife and others were dangerous around my daughter. These seem to fill my sonic needs and work well with my familial constraints...so while I dream of fancier, better designs, these are playing very acceptably in my real-world situation.
regards, t
Jim,
You have used bith Jordan 92 and Alpair 10, can the Alpair 10 be used in a similar box as your Jordan 92 A. Cantus combo? If yes do you think I can get as good a bass freq. resp. from Alpair 10 as from a Jordan?
Also is the H. Freq from Alpair 10 be good enough so that I don't have to use the A.Cantus tweeter?
Thanks.
You have used bith Jordan 92 and Alpair 10, can the Alpair 10 be used in a similar box as your Jordan 92 A. Cantus combo? If yes do you think I can get as good a bass freq. resp. from Alpair 10 as from a Jordan?
Also is the H. Freq from Alpair 10 be good enough so that I don't have to use the A.Cantus tweeter?
Thanks.
ttan98,
The Alpair 10 and Jordan JX92S are very comparable to each other. Bass tuning is virtually the same but the A10 has a higher Xmax so theoretically it will handle slightly more power on the low end before exceeding Xmax.
Their high frequency responses are very comparable. Both drivers will tend to beam in the top two octaves (5000 to 20,000 Hz) as would any full range drivers of similiar size. I've seen data which shows that the A10 has slightly lower excursions (those small frequency response peaks and dips) over the top frequency bands vs. the JX92S but we are talking very minor differences. But the Aurum Cantus ribbon driver is a better tweeter than either of these full range drivers over the upper octaves. The ribbon driver version sounds more spacious (better dispersion) with flatter frequency response than either the A10 or JX92S over these top two octaves.
Bottom line is that you need to hear either of the full range drivers to decide if you can live with their performance without bass or treble augmentation.
Jim
The Alpair 10 and Jordan JX92S are very comparable to each other. Bass tuning is virtually the same but the A10 has a higher Xmax so theoretically it will handle slightly more power on the low end before exceeding Xmax.
Their high frequency responses are very comparable. Both drivers will tend to beam in the top two octaves (5000 to 20,000 Hz) as would any full range drivers of similiar size. I've seen data which shows that the A10 has slightly lower excursions (those small frequency response peaks and dips) over the top frequency bands vs. the JX92S but we are talking very minor differences. But the Aurum Cantus ribbon driver is a better tweeter than either of these full range drivers over the upper octaves. The ribbon driver version sounds more spacious (better dispersion) with flatter frequency response than either the A10 or JX92S over these top two octaves.
Bottom line is that you need to hear either of the full range drivers to decide if you can live with their performance without bass or treble augmentation.
Jim
Hi there,
Apart from the physical difference in size, has anyone found any issues in pairing the Aurum Cantus G3Si? I've not found anything to date.
I picked up a pair relatively cheap with the aim of pairing with the JX92s using Jim's design - but unfortunately, I was a single digit out!
I've noticed that they are a few db more efficient than the G2Si (99db vs 96) and I'm sure this will impact Jim's crossover design...
Just have to build the cross-cut sled tomorrow before making a pair.
Cheers!
Andrew
Apart from the physical difference in size, has anyone found any issues in pairing the Aurum Cantus G3Si? I've not found anything to date.
I picked up a pair relatively cheap with the aim of pairing with the JX92s using Jim's design - but unfortunately, I was a single digit out!
I've noticed that they are a few db more efficient than the G2Si (99db vs 96) and I'm sure this will impact Jim's crossover design...
Just have to build the cross-cut sled tomorrow before making a pair.
Cheers!
Andrew
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