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Old 7th November 2007, 02:31 AM   #1
BHD is offline BHD  United States
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Default Mod Podge and Micro Gloss

This question is going out to Planet 10 and Bud P - I bought the gloss Mod Podge to modify drivers, but I saw there are matte versions of both Mod Podge and Micro Gloss.

Was the choice to use the gloss versions based on sonic qualities or will the matte versions work as well? I'd prefer the matte versions from a purely aesthetic standpoint, but will gladly use gloss instead if your experience has shown you that it's sonically more effective.

Thanks in advance, I've almost got everything together...

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Old 9th November 2007, 05:11 AM   #2
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What drivers are you EnABLing?

dave
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Old 9th November 2007, 07:41 PM   #3
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I'm doing the FE103E's and the Alpha 15A's in the MJK open baffles. Here's the order in which I'm planning on proceeding:

Experiment with L-Pads to lower the level of the FE103E, then measure for hardwired resistor values.

Round the wood in the back of the baffle around the driver hole and use duct seal to damp the basket on both the FE103E's and the Alpha 15A's.

Dammar patterns and one layer of Mod Podge on the FE103's, then listen and maybe try a second layer. While I'm doing this, I'm planning on doing my first EnABL on the Alpha 15A woofer to practice before doing the FE103E.

EnABL on the FE103E's with two layers of micro gloss.

MAMBONI felt triangles on the back of the woofers. If this works really well, I may try it on the FE103E's. At the very least, I may try putting felt on the inside of the basket legs of the FE103's as the felt I purchased is pretty thin.

Last, but not least, Phase Plugs.

I'd prefer the matte finish, but will go with the gloss (I've purchased it now anyway) Mod Podge and Gloss Coat if it will give better results.

I'd appreciate some advice. What do you think?

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Old 9th November 2007, 07:55 PM   #4
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The applicability of the trifoil pattern on the FE103s is unknown. That pattern is specific to FE126/127.

No one has yet correlated Mark MacK's measures with his deternination of where the drivers needs attention to break up the cone modes, but as the FE103e measures are there, one might find a useful pattern for the FE103.

The banana cones do seem to benefit from a thin layer of thinned puzzlekoat before EnABLing (or 2 of really thinned).

Keep in mind that you will lose something on the order of a third to a half dB of efficiency with the added mas of the puzzlekoat and the Microgloss

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Old 9th November 2007, 08:08 PM   #5
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Quote:
The applicability of the trifoil pattern on the FE103s is unknown.
Eh, I am not afraid. But I guess it won't really be that effective as a learning exercise, since I don't have another pair to try without the trifoil patterns. Oh well.

Quote:
Keep in mind that you will lose something on the order of a third to a half dB of efficiency with the added mas of the puzzlekoat and the Microgloss
I figure that'll be offset by the loss of the weight of the dustcap when I remove it to install the phase plugs.

Maybe I'll skip the Dammar and just go with two really thin layers of puzzlecoat. Would you suggest doing both sides? Perhaps one really thin layer on the front and back?

So, I guess the matte is out, yes?
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Old 9th November 2007, 08:24 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by BHD
Maybe I'll skip the Dammar and just go with two really thin layers of puzzlecoat. Would you suggest doing both sides? Perhaps one really thin layer on the front and back?

So, I guess the matte is out, yes?
That is what i'd do. 2 thin coats of gloss PK is still matte. Doesn't matter anyway, as when you've EnABLed them the microgloss makes them shiny.

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Old 9th November 2007, 08:29 PM   #7
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Thanks Dave. I appreciate the help.

Next week I'll be calling you up to order a slew of phase plugs, ones for FE103's, FE126's, FE206's, and FE206ESR's.
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Old 12th November 2007, 12:18 AM   #8
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BHD,

The matte material is useful for some areas. If you were getting a shriek from between a whizzer and cone surface area, that had gloss on the cone, the matte would tend to slow the whizzer surface speed slightly. This might or might not be needed and the things to listen for are not obvious and can really only be heard after the full EnABL treatment with gloss coating has cured.

I have not made a point about this over on the thread yet, as most folks are new to this clear sound and it does take a while to get over the "new car smell" and begin to focus on what is still not correct.

So, use Gloss coat only please, and use it sparingly on the FR driver.

Be prepared to use only a single 50% cut with water coating, if you are going to apply it over another paper filling material. I have no idea why you would not use the trifoil pattern. It will not interfere with the EnABL process at all, but this is Dave's device and I have zero experience here. So, I can only offer advice from the EnABL point of view.


For the woofer, if it is a pulp paper cone with only one side calendered smooth, expect to use a fair amount of Gloss coat. Typical paper woofer will swallow three coats of full strength gloss. The last two will be spread over increasingly large areas for each brush application, so less total material will be applied for each coating. Allow at least 24 hours between coats of gloss.

As for the Mamboni triangles, definitely on the backside of the woofer, with great care and reluctance on the FR driver, especially if you have also put Dave's materials to work here. No one has yet applied all three processes, to a set of FR drivers, nor to woofers that I know of.

So, finish all of the liquid materials applications, for both drivers, first please. Allow them to cure out for a few weeks, while listening and learning how much information you have at hand. Then, as things you want to hear more of, or less of, begin to become known we can address them. There is a lot more, in a subtle sense, that EnABL can be used to correct, but you must get the big weeds cut down first.

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Old 12th November 2007, 02:59 AM   #9
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Thanks, Bud, for responding.

Quote:
I have no idea why you would not use the trifoil pattern. It will not interfere with the EnABL process at all, but this is Dave's device and I have zero experience here.
Dave said that the Trifoil pattern is one that he developed for the 126 and 127 drivers, so I'll follow his suggestion and go with a thin coating of puzzlecoat on the front and back of the FE103 drivers sans the Dammar trifoil pattern. We'll see what happens.

Quote:
it does take a while to get over the "new car smell" and begin to focus on what is still not correct.
I, as many have been, a victim to "different is better". There is no doubt that these mods will make significant differences to the sound of the drivers, but I'm not afraid to take these to the point of "too far" and will report my findings, such as they are.

Quote:
As for the Mamboni triangles, definitely on the backside of the woofer, with great care and reluctance on the FR driver, especially if you have also put Dave's materials to work here.
As per your suggestion, I'm actually going to work on the woofers first (with the exception of rounding the baffles and damping the FR driver baskets), but the Mamboni triangles on the FR drivers will be the LAST of the mods that I do, at least to this driver, anyway. The woofers will not get any puzzlecoat, but will get the EnABL treatment along with Mamboni triangles. I'm going to damp the stamped baskets with ductseal as well.

Quote:
For the woofer, if it is a pulp paper cone with only one side calendered smooth, expect to use a fair amount of Gloss coat. Typical paper woofer will swallow three coats of full strength gloss.
Don't worry, I have four bottles of Micro Gloss on the way.

This project is only the first of many. I plan on a FE126 iBIB, I have a set of Pioneer drivers to play with and a set of FE206E's to mangle before I even get close to my beloved FE206ESR's. The other projects will be learning opportunities.

Bud, thanks for bringing this process to DIY'ers attention and helping us with all this. You are a very generous person. I (and I'm sure many others) appreciate it.
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Old 12th November 2007, 03:21 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by BHD
so I'll follow his suggestion and go with a thin coating of puzzlecoat on the front and back of the FE103 drivers sans the Dammar trifoil pattern.
PK only on the front. If you do front & back you will gat a constrained layer sandwich that would dramatically stiffen the cone which could lead to worsening any breakup mods.

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