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Old 3rd November 2007, 01:19 AM   #1
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Default Fullrange frustration!

I need hellllppp. :-)

I got the AER FS2B drivers because they were supposed to be better than Lowther. They are much better in terms of flatter frequency response and less cone breakup...

but...

The cone breakup is still there. I can't play them loud unless I want painful harshness. As I continue to do research on the issue I find that making a true 'full range' driver without cone breakup is apparently impossible. So I don't know what to do.

What about the Manger driver? No breakup but it needs high pass and what's in that but active crossovers (which I don't have or want) or gigantic electrolytic caps?

What about trying to coat the AER driver with Damar or something? How well does this work? I don't know if I want to do that on $3k drivers. Note I would not care if the highs were attenuated; I'd add a tweeter.

I liked the Fostex F200A except for it's metal center. Maybe I could put a light coating of transparent material on that and add a tweeter?

What do you folks do to get your cake and eat it too?
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Old 3rd November 2007, 01:24 AM   #2
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Ask BudP over at the EnABL thread for some advice - he might be able to help out.

EnABL Processes

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Old 3rd November 2007, 01:31 AM   #3
MJK is offline MJK  United States
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You don't indicate what type of enclosure you are using, but if you are running them full range you might have a baffle step and rising SPL response problem. Harshness is sometimes an indication of a significant rising SPL response with increasing frequency, to rebalance the SPL response and remove all harshness, a properly sized BSC filter is the way to go. I can make any of my Lowthers shout and sound very harsh, but the proper correction filter cures it every time.
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Old 3rd November 2007, 01:39 AM   #4
ronc is offline ronc  United States
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The cone breakup is still there. I can't play them loud unless I want painful harshness

Then they are not loaded correctly at low frequencies.

ron
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Old 3rd November 2007, 01:48 AM   #5
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Oh, these are in an open baffle with 2 Eminence Alpha 15s per side. The sound is amazing at low and moderate volumes. I just can't listen to them loud - frequencies (I'm guessing) between 2 and 10khz lose coherency. And damn it; I'm an audio nut that likes it loud. I've read various explanations about 'cone breakup' with a thin paper cone unable to keep all of its areas moving together like a piston. I don't think this is a problem with my setup. I couldn't listen to the Lowther EX2 or the FostexFE166E loud either and box or boxless didn't seem to matter. The AER plays louder than the Lowther before losing composure in the upper mids but it loses it all the same. Now I'm not talking volumes that threaten the integrity of the driver or my ears; just nice n' loud like I used to do with my ho-hum 3-way crossover jobbies.

Interesting link, Thomas.
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Old 3rd November 2007, 01:57 AM   #6
MJK is offline MJK  United States
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I have a pair of Lowther PM2A's mated with two Alpha 15A's on an open baffle and have not noticed a problem like you describe. It still sounds to me like an unbalanced SPL response, what frequency are you crossing over from the Alpha's to the AER and how much boost are you applying to the Alpha's? Does your amp have enough power so it is not your amp running out of steam when the system is pushed to loud levels?
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Old 3rd November 2007, 02:04 AM   #7
ronc is offline ronc  United States
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I am going to extrapolate on the above.

In a pure physics POV we are trying to extend a single transducer over a broad range of frequencies. Low frequencies demand greater displacement or volume of air moved ( not considering TL or horn action). The "loading " factor determines the actual cone position when a different frequency is input at the same time. When the cone position is a greater position from the magnetic field flux there is less effect of the higher frequencies. This is distortion or lessining of the input energy(control) from the higher frequencies.
As the field coil is not in the correct position to fully transfer the energy the input signal has to " fight " with mechanical inertia and a loss of strength of the input energy due to the proximity of the FC and the magnetic flux field.
Mechanically loaded this lessens ,but is never overcomes.

ron
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Old 3rd November 2007, 02:16 AM   #8
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I'm running the AERs fullrange and just one 3.0 magnetic (Erse) coil on the Alphas. This is a simple system, just an amp, a CD player, drivers on a baffle and one inductor. No boost on the Alphas, I run them in parallel (yes, system impedance 3.2ohm heh heh the amp shows no sign of stress) and I cannot detect that any one frequency is louder than any other except for some mild bass room effects. With the Lowther drivers I noticed a huge difference between 500hz and 8khz; on the order of 20db and the plot Lowther sent me confirmed this. After that I realized what poorly-engineered 'fullrange' speakers Lowthers are. The AER seems to be quite flat. The frequencies that seem to turn to mush don't appear to be any louder than other frequencies, they just lose definition. Does this make any sense? I'm far from an expert
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Old 3rd November 2007, 02:39 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by InclinedPlane
I'm running the AERs fullrange and just one 3.0 magnetic (Erse) coil on the Alphas. This is a simple system, just an amp, a CD player, drivers on a baffle and one inductor. No boost on the Alphas, I run them in parallel (yes, system impedance 3.2ohm heh heh the amp shows no sign of stress) and I cannot detect that any one frequency is louder than any other except for some mild bass room effects. With the Lowther drivers I noticed a huge difference between 500hz and 8khz; on the order of 20db and the plot Lowther sent me confirmed this. After that I realized what poorly-engineered 'fullrange' speakers Lowthers are. The AER seems to be quite flat. The frequencies that seem to turn to mush don't appear to be any louder than other frequencies, they just lose definition. Does this make any sense? I'm far from an expert

put cap in front of AERs , or - even better - use series xover

if that doesn't help - you can freely send those dreky drivers to me - for proper disposal
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Old 3rd November 2007, 06:23 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zen Mod
put cap in front of AERs , or - even better - use series xover
I'm with Zen Mod on this... on the OB the AER needs to be high passed. What is happening is that at high volumes the unloaded bottom of the FR is causing the driver to "flap" around.

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