Hello all,
After reading MJK's OB design article, I've decide to have a try at it. The main difference is that it's going to have an active crossover (biamped), and it will be using more expensive drivers. Oh, and I will be using Thuneau software for a PC crossover. So its a little different.
The main goals are to get deep clean bass, and very nice mids and highs. This is not going to be a budget system - I want to build a higher quality system than anything I've built yet.
Right now my short list: a Dayton IB 15" with a Visaton B200. These seem well recommended (thanks JohninCR). I plan on adding phase plugs to help the B200s. I want to XO at 200Hz or less, probably at a steeper slope.
These drivers are $120 and $135 each, respectively. That is probably the max I want to pay per driver, so if anyone has recommendations for higher quality drivers at that price or less, please speak now or forever hold your peace. Particularly, there are a number of wide range drivers that are of high quality around this price, and I'm not familiar with them. If anyone feels there is another mid/high driver that would work well, please holler. I'm mostly after getting the mids right, the highs might get massaged by a supertweeter later.
Stay tuned.
After reading MJK's OB design article, I've decide to have a try at it. The main difference is that it's going to have an active crossover (biamped), and it will be using more expensive drivers. Oh, and I will be using Thuneau software for a PC crossover. So its a little different.
The main goals are to get deep clean bass, and very nice mids and highs. This is not going to be a budget system - I want to build a higher quality system than anything I've built yet.
Right now my short list: a Dayton IB 15" with a Visaton B200. These seem well recommended (thanks JohninCR). I plan on adding phase plugs to help the B200s. I want to XO at 200Hz or less, probably at a steeper slope.
These drivers are $120 and $135 each, respectively. That is probably the max I want to pay per driver, so if anyone has recommendations for higher quality drivers at that price or less, please speak now or forever hold your peace. Particularly, there are a number of wide range drivers that are of high quality around this price, and I'm not familiar with them. If anyone feels there is another mid/high driver that would work well, please holler. I'm mostly after getting the mids right, the highs might get massaged by a supertweeter later.
Stay tuned.
Thanks for the suggestions - it looks like I'll be staying with the original drivers. Before I order them, I'm going to be building the amps for the woofer channel, and getting to know Thuneau. I'll be building a jig for drivers, I'm planning to magnet mount them. I just haven't decided on the aesthetics yet (some WAF necessary). So hopefully I'll have the drivers running within a couple of weeks.
Till then..
Till then..
As you can see, I am very excited with how these are sounding! They are still breaking in, but right off the bat, they sound very good. Better than any other freshly minted speaker I've made. My fiancee usually laughs at me for all this messing around, but this time she was really impressed. She even said they sound very 'open' and like 'the singers were in the room with us'! Pretty good coming from someone who doesn't do any of this stuff.
Anyway, they are going to burn in for a couple of days before I really critique them. The highs are a little pronounced, like the B200 frequency response suggests, and the bass is powerful. The mids don't seem recessed at all though. They need to burn in, but even without it, they sound great.
I highly recommend using Allocator, it works very well, particularly with Winamp. I've used it some, and it took me less than an hour to get it running for this setup.
On the low end, Peter Daniel's gainclone feeds the Alpha15, and on the top, I've got 10W 6BM8 monoblocks a friend designed. You can see them sitting on top of the H-frames.
I'm just starting though: I'm going to add phase plugs, possibly a wave guide like JohninCR did, Enable the drivers (thanks Ed for the kit!), make a real baffle, and do a little FR and time alignment in Allocator. I've got to do some fixing around the preamp - things are jury-rigged just to work, so they aren't perfect.
Anyway, they are going to burn in for a couple of days before I really critique them. The highs are a little pronounced, like the B200 frequency response suggests, and the bass is powerful. The mids don't seem recessed at all though. They need to burn in, but even without it, they sound great.
I highly recommend using Allocator, it works very well, particularly with Winamp. I've used it some, and it took me less than an hour to get it running for this setup.
On the low end, Peter Daniel's gainclone feeds the Alpha15, and on the top, I've got 10W 6BM8 monoblocks a friend designed. You can see them sitting on top of the H-frames.
I'm just starting though: I'm going to add phase plugs, possibly a wave guide like JohninCR did, Enable the drivers (thanks Ed for the kit!), make a real baffle, and do a little FR and time alignment in Allocator. I've got to do some fixing around the preamp - things are jury-rigged just to work, so they aren't perfect.
Dave -
I went with the Alpha 15 drivers for a couple of reasons - I've been using MJK's spreadsheets, and believe what I was seeing, and what he and others have said about the particular benefits of using an Alpha15 open baffle. They are a bit cheaper too. Altogether, the drivers were about $400usd. Using the Daytons would have added quite a bit.
I obviously can't compare the Alphas to the Daytons, but I am not disappointed. The bass is strong, and the drivers have not been broken in or tweaked yet.
If I had a very large room, and wanted to do high SPLs, I might have done two Daytons per side - I think that is where they would shine. They are made to handle a lot of power. But in a moderate to small room, a single Alpha15 is plenty. The H-frame makes them particularly size efficient too...
I went with the Alpha 15 drivers for a couple of reasons - I've been using MJK's spreadsheets, and believe what I was seeing, and what he and others have said about the particular benefits of using an Alpha15 open baffle. They are a bit cheaper too. Altogether, the drivers were about $400usd. Using the Daytons would have added quite a bit.
I obviously can't compare the Alphas to the Daytons, but I am not disappointed. The bass is strong, and the drivers have not been broken in or tweaked yet.
If I had a very large room, and wanted to do high SPLs, I might have done two Daytons per side - I think that is where they would shine. They are made to handle a lot of power. But in a moderate to small room, a single Alpha15 is plenty. The H-frame makes them particularly size efficient too...
Well, I've been listening to these all summer. I added phase plugs, and enabld the drivers. These both had a large positive impact on how they sounded. I also tried adding a 'waveguide', basically something like a "victorian collar" dogs wear after a trip to the vet. It just added a bump at 2k, made things sound worse. I changed the baffle to a larger one, and move the driver off center. I would say the speakers as such were very decent. During the summer, I had the chance to spend some time with the Seigfried Linkwitz's Orions, and that has shown me ways these speakers could be improved, a lot. I think there are three main places I'm working on immediately - wide/even dispersion, lower non-linear distortion, and greater power handling. All these things should lead to a more natural presentation.
So I'm currently working on integrating a 2" mid and 3/4" tweeter, and building a 6 channel amp to handle everything, and building more solid baffles. During the last six months I realized my 10W amp was not up to task, as most of the other source/preamp/amp/cables I've built. I've had to put a lot of work into making them more reliable and particularly lower noise. It's a pain when your trying to develop something, and none of your tools work - but its all been fun.
So I'm currently working on integrating a 2" mid and 3/4" tweeter, and building a 6 channel amp to handle everything, and building more solid baffles. During the last six months I realized my 10W amp was not up to task, as most of the other source/preamp/amp/cables I've built. I've had to put a lot of work into making them more reliable and particularly lower noise. It's a pain when your trying to develop something, and none of your tools work - but its all been fun.
Glad it is working out so well. This stuff is fun.
Adding a helper tweeter above 10k might be helpful but I would think long and hard before taking the risk of mucking up your imaging by adding a midrange. Part of the beauty of using the B200 is keeping the crossovers out of the critical range. Just my two cents.
Adding a helper tweeter above 10k might be helpful but I would think long and hard before taking the risk of mucking up your imaging by adding a midrange. Part of the beauty of using the B200 is keeping the crossovers out of the critical range. Just my two cents.
cuibono said:
G'day cuibono,
I have been exploring enABL patterns on baffles, ports and inside speakers cabinets.
To make the blocks I use a clear tape called 'All Weather Tape' made by Norton rather than paint (easier to move/remove patterns)
You already know the impact of enABL on the drivers.
Why not try enABLing the baffle edge as if it were a driver - do the front side and the backside.
Cheers,
Alex
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