Hey guys, I just learned about the "Bigger is Better" cabinet style on these forums and thought it would be a good first project to introduce me to speaker building. I've never built a speaker cabinet, and I'm also very new to most hi-fi audio concepts and terminology, so go easy on me.
From what I've read the FE127E seems to be a popular driver, so I went ahead and ordered a pair which I plan to use in my BIB.
So I just have some questions about the basic construction.
What's the best way to cut and chamfer the hole for the speaker?
I don't really understand the function/construction of the "suprabaffle" either. I looks like it's usually just a round sheet of wood that goes around the speaker?
It's hard to find some basic newbie intro to these boxes, but I found this page showing how to calculate the dimensions for the box:
http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib-howtobuild.asp
I noticed in one place they describe Z as "Distance of driver center to top end of cabinet" but on the page that gives driver-specific dimensions, they say Z is "distance down from sealed end of cabinet". Why do they say sealed end here? Seems to me the "sealed end" would be the bottom of the enclosure.
This page also gives three options for the stuffing. What sort of material is good to use here, and what audible differences should I expect from these three stuffing options?
My living room ceiling is sloped to each side, shaped like this /\ (the slope is not that drastic though), with the TV directly under the crease. And due to the layout, I would not be able to put my speakers near the corners of the room, just along the wall. I've read that the BIB depends on the walls/ceiling to help produce it's sound. Do you think a BIB would still sound decent under these conditions?
From what I've read the FE127E seems to be a popular driver, so I went ahead and ordered a pair which I plan to use in my BIB.
So I just have some questions about the basic construction.
What's the best way to cut and chamfer the hole for the speaker?
I don't really understand the function/construction of the "suprabaffle" either. I looks like it's usually just a round sheet of wood that goes around the speaker?
It's hard to find some basic newbie intro to these boxes, but I found this page showing how to calculate the dimensions for the box:
http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib-howtobuild.asp
I noticed in one place they describe Z as "Distance of driver center to top end of cabinet" but on the page that gives driver-specific dimensions, they say Z is "distance down from sealed end of cabinet". Why do they say sealed end here? Seems to me the "sealed end" would be the bottom of the enclosure.
This page also gives three options for the stuffing. What sort of material is good to use here, and what audible differences should I expect from these three stuffing options?
My living room ceiling is sloped to each side, shaped like this /\ (the slope is not that drastic though), with the TV directly under the crease. And due to the layout, I would not be able to put my speakers near the corners of the room, just along the wall. I've read that the BIB depends on the walls/ceiling to help produce it's sound. Do you think a BIB would still sound decent under these conditions?
Zdriver has nothing to do with the top or bottom of the cabinet per se. It's the distance taken from the throat of the horn (the sealed pointed end of the line) to the centre of the driver.
Damping is rather room dependant, as the room continues the horn expansion of these cabinets. I'd line the front of the sloping internal baffle and one side-wall from the throat to 6in past the driver. I'd also line the area around the bend with the same, and adjust from there to suit.
Damping is rather room dependant, as the room continues the horn expansion of these cabinets. I'd line the front of the sloping internal baffle and one side-wall from the throat to 6in past the driver. I'd also line the area around the bend with the same, and adjust from there to suit.
..........but everything is there!
Your choice of the FE127e is a good one. I built the BIB with that.
The 127e is a modest purchase for first time builder and appropriately so. I got mine years ago and am still experimenting with them in different cabinet styles.
An older thread on here is called 'the reference build' (another long one) which takes you through the whole design process with the 127e.
The measures are straightforward. Bare in mind the dimension of the wood itself of the internal baffle when cutting and gluing up.
Two tweaks work very well for me: First is the high resistance (thin wire) connects and second is the Pennant. The pennant is a right angle triangle piece of fabric suspended in the mouth of the horn. Pennant tweak was suggested by GM.
Have fun. The hobby is totally engaging.
The 127e is a modest purchase for first time builder and appropriately so. I got mine years ago and am still experimenting with them in different cabinet styles.
An older thread on here is called 'the reference build' (another long one) which takes you through the whole design process with the 127e.
The measures are straightforward. Bare in mind the dimension of the wood itself of the internal baffle when cutting and gluing up.
Two tweaks work very well for me: First is the high resistance (thin wire) connects and second is the Pennant. The pennant is a right angle triangle piece of fabric suspended in the mouth of the horn. Pennant tweak was suggested by GM.
Have fun. The hobby is totally engaging.
Which one is the "original" thread?
This one? Terry Cain's BIB -why does it work and does anyone have those Fostex Craft Handbooks?
>> The 127e is a modest purchase for first time builder and appropriately so. I got mine years ago and am still experimenting with them in different cabinet styles.
Me too!
Peeps... how big is your room? Any cabinet using the 127e may benefit from a powered sub if the room is large... even a BIB. Small and medium sized rooms may not need subwoofers.
The BIB tries to extract as much bass any given driver may be able to produce. It's a great cabinet choice for maximizing bass. Many who build BIBs claim it provides the most bass compared to other cabinets they've tried. It's not a perfect cabinet since it gives up smoothness in the mids (i dont mind the tradoff) but it rounds out the sound of full range drivers nicely. Corners do help the bass fill up a room using BIBs but are not mandatory... just optimal.
As for stuffing, the three illustrations are just what some have done with good results. Personally, i have just stuffed behind the driver and at the bottom of the cabinet. That's what worked for me in my listening room.
Me too!
Peeps... how big is your room? Any cabinet using the 127e may benefit from a powered sub if the room is large... even a BIB. Small and medium sized rooms may not need subwoofers.
The BIB tries to extract as much bass any given driver may be able to produce. It's a great cabinet choice for maximizing bass. Many who build BIBs claim it provides the most bass compared to other cabinets they've tried. It's not a perfect cabinet since it gives up smoothness in the mids (i dont mind the tradoff) but it rounds out the sound of full range drivers nicely. Corners do help the bass fill up a room using BIBs but are not mandatory... just optimal.
As for stuffing, the three illustrations are just what some have done with good results. Personally, i have just stuffed behind the driver and at the bottom of the cabinet. That's what worked for me in my listening room.
Well, my living room is pretty big, i don't know the exact dimension, I could try measuring later when I get home. It's very open, blends into entry way, the dining room, and the kitchen with no doorways between.
I might end up using this first pair just for my office/computer room. That is a fairly small room that has a simple square layout, and I would be able to use the corners.
Well, i guess the main part of the room is 18' x 18' but it's a very strange layout, not very square. Part of the room(the dining area) extends another 10 feet away from the wall where I would place the speakers(so 28 feet as it's longest dimension).
Oh and the ceilings are 10' high on the sides, sloping up to 12'10" in the center.
I would draw a pic, but I don't know any good simple CAD like programs (I'm on linux.)
Oh and the ceilings are 10' high on the sides, sloping up to 12'10" in the center.
I would draw a pic, but I don't know any good simple CAD like programs (I'm on linux.)
Greets!
OK, so room gain won't begin in earnest until ~565/28 = ~20 Hz, so no help beyond local boundary loading and the ceiling height is too high for effective loading of any but the tallest BIBs, so either as previously noted a sub pipe horn may be required and/or the BIB be floor loaded.
GM
OK, so room gain won't begin in earnest until ~565/28 = ~20 Hz, so no help beyond local boundary loading and the ceiling height is too high for effective loading of any but the tallest BIBs, so either as previously noted a sub pipe horn may be required and/or the BIB be floor loaded.
GM
OK, I'm thinking I'll be building these BIBs just for my office / computer speakers then. It's a much more sensible 11'6" x 10' with 10' ceilings.
I'm thinking maybe after I make these, to give my living room a try with metronomes or some double mouth flugel spawn. Would one of these be better suited? As I mentioned before, I can't use the corners of my living room either.
I'm thinking maybe after I make these, to give my living room a try with metronomes or some double mouth flugel spawn. Would one of these be better suited? As I mentioned before, I can't use the corners of my living room either.
Hi Folks,
Just thought I'd comment on the straight BIB. I have the fe108e sigma in a straight BIB. I chose the driver specifically so I could try out a straightened BIB, it turned out to be over 8ft tall. They look great and do sound lovely however, my personal opinion is that the first dip you see in the response is quite audible and with my fe108 BIB lies in a spot that is quite audible to me. I added large baffles which improved things. Also the fs is about 77Hz which although good, I think does need a sub to fill in the lower notes. Like Terry Cain used in his inverted fe108 boxes.
This point is not so different from the fe127 fs of 70Hz. Yes the midrange of my fe108es is spectacular but don't expect real bass even in a BIB, better than other designs yes.
I would suggest that the larger drivers like ff165 (fs 40Hz), f167 (fs 50Hz), fe168es (fs 51Hz), would be more effective in the bass obviously and that dip which I find bothers me is lowered to a point that is not so critical. I believe these would be better! The fold I think does help reducing high frequencies coming out horn.
This is my experience from living with this driver and mucking about for 7 months and having fun with it. Now I think I might try the OB design or metronomes with a sub using the same driver.
I know other peoples experiences may be different in which case, that is brilliant and I would love to hear their opinions.
Cheers Stroop
Just thought I'd comment on the straight BIB. I have the fe108e sigma in a straight BIB. I chose the driver specifically so I could try out a straightened BIB, it turned out to be over 8ft tall. They look great and do sound lovely however, my personal opinion is that the first dip you see in the response is quite audible and with my fe108 BIB lies in a spot that is quite audible to me. I added large baffles which improved things. Also the fs is about 77Hz which although good, I think does need a sub to fill in the lower notes. Like Terry Cain used in his inverted fe108 boxes.
This point is not so different from the fe127 fs of 70Hz. Yes the midrange of my fe108es is spectacular but don't expect real bass even in a BIB, better than other designs yes.
I would suggest that the larger drivers like ff165 (fs 40Hz), f167 (fs 50Hz), fe168es (fs 51Hz), would be more effective in the bass obviously and that dip which I find bothers me is lowered to a point that is not so critical. I believe these would be better! The fold I think does help reducing high frequencies coming out horn.
This is my experience from living with this driver and mucking about for 7 months and having fun with it. Now I think I might try the OB design or metronomes with a sub using the same driver.
I know other peoples experiences may be different in which case, that is brilliant and I would love to hear their opinions.
Cheers Stroop
Godzilla said:
If the horn mouth stays the same it wouldn't take up that much room until you get to the ceiling. Then mount the speak on the side (?) They were experimenting with this in design some monhs ago, but did not totally straighten the length. The angled ceilings would make the build less obtrusive.
I made a sample build using PVC years ago that was straight 81".
Yes, the speak was up near the ceiling on an elbow. But the pipe organ concert sounded pretty nifty.
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