>>> I'll move them upstairs later...
Good luck!
Moving BIBs, back horns and pipes from my garage to my basement and finally into the rooms they were intended is a back breaking task.
But it's worth it of course! When i bought my new car i measured to make sure it would fit a typical BIB.
The Chang is a wild looking design! The Half-Chang is more typical of traditional back horns and quite handsome.
Scott, i was curious how you came up with the size of the top part of the cabinet. It's basically a 1.7 cubic foot slotted cab... but slotted into a large mouth. Sorry if i missed an explanation in an earlier post.
Thanks,
Godzilla
Good luck!
Moving BIBs, back horns and pipes from my garage to my basement and finally into the rooms they were intended is a back breaking task.
But it's worth it of course! When i bought my new car i measured to make sure it would fit a typical BIB.
The Chang is a wild looking design! The Half-Chang is more typical of traditional back horns and quite handsome.
Scott, i was curious how you came up with the size of the top part of the cabinet. It's basically a 1.7 cubic foot slotted cab... but slotted into a large mouth. Sorry if i missed an explanation in an earlier post.
Thanks,
Godzilla
I make no bones about it -these boxes were started as extremely simple fun boxes that took all of thirty seconds to design & sim (it helps that I've been working with BVRs for the best part of two years of course 
). The upper box is in fact the Fostex Factory FE206E BR cabinet, with the driver repositioned & a completely different approach to the vents. I kid thee not. I designed the cabinet for the 206/7, so I figured why reinvent the wheel when a box of the 45litre volume I needed & of HxWxD dimensions ideal for my needs was there, just waiting for me to do evil things with it. 
). The upper box is in fact the Fostex Factory FE206E BR cabinet, with the driver repositioned & a completely different approach to the vents. I kid thee not. I designed the cabinet for the 206/7, so I figured why reinvent the wheel when a box of the 45litre volume I needed & of HxWxD dimensions ideal for my needs was there, just waiting for me to do evil things with it. Okay, they're connected to the Squeezbox and the Amp10 now and I've been flipping through a lot of different music for an hour or so.
Here are some initial impressions (big caveat here - I am in no way an "audiophile". These are only my second pair of DIY speakers, the first being the Cyburgs Needles a couple of months ago. Before that I had a Cambridge Soundworks Ensemble II sub-sat system that left a lot to be desired. All my impressions are based on that experience only. Also take note that one side is simply clamped; there is no damping in the horn void, and the FE206s are still going to get puzzlecoat/phase plugs at minimum.)
Overall these are MUCH more efficent than the Needles (87db vs. perhaps 92-3db with the series resistance). I'm using lower volume settings and getting more sound - not surprising considering there's at least twice as much speaker volume.
LF is excellent - I will definitely retire the sub-woofer I had been using with the needles. Bass is musical and clear. This is not HT earth-rumbling and for my purposes that's very good.
Midrange is strong and detailed. This , I think, contributes to the much improves sound stage. Listening to live recordings (Tom Waits, Bill Evans) even with the less than ideal speaker placement right now reveals good location of instruments, vocals, background chatter, etc. I'm really looking forward to listening once these are tuned into the room some more.
High frequencies are still a bit much for me. It may be that they still need more break-in, or more (different?) damping, or the upcoming puzzlecaot/phase plugs, or EnABLing. Or it could be that I just need to get used to them. I suspect it's some combination of the above.
If it doesn't lead to marital strife, I'll leave them in place for a day or two and just listen. Until I do the puzzlecoat/phase plug mods I'm hesitant to change the damping, though with the side just clamped it's easy to fiddle with it if I get antsy.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Here are some initial impressions (big caveat here - I am in no way an "audiophile". These are only my second pair of DIY speakers, the first being the Cyburgs Needles a couple of months ago. Before that I had a Cambridge Soundworks Ensemble II sub-sat system that left a lot to be desired. All my impressions are based on that experience only. Also take note that one side is simply clamped; there is no damping in the horn void, and the FE206s are still going to get puzzlecoat/phase plugs at minimum.)
Overall these are MUCH more efficent than the Needles (87db vs. perhaps 92-3db with the series resistance). I'm using lower volume settings and getting more sound - not surprising considering there's at least twice as much speaker volume.
LF is excellent - I will definitely retire the sub-woofer I had been using with the needles. Bass is musical and clear. This is not HT earth-rumbling and for my purposes that's very good.
Midrange is strong and detailed. This , I think, contributes to the much improves sound stage. Listening to live recordings (Tom Waits, Bill Evans) even with the less than ideal speaker placement right now reveals good location of instruments, vocals, background chatter, etc. I'm really looking forward to listening once these are tuned into the room some more.
High frequencies are still a bit much for me. It may be that they still need more break-in, or more (different?) damping, or the upcoming puzzlecaot/phase plugs, or EnABLing. Or it could be that I just need to get used to them. I suspect it's some combination of the above.
If it doesn't lead to marital strife, I'll leave them in place for a day or two and just listen. Until I do the puzzlecoat/phase plug mods I'm hesitant to change the damping, though with the side just clamped it's easy to fiddle with it if I get antsy.
Nice... I like. Oh yes.
Highs too strong for you? Phase plugs are your friend. Some more damping in the chamber wouldn't go amiss either -that cork is unlikely to be enough. I'd get some wool underlay, and cover the top, back and one side to start with & adjust from there. Should help smooth things out a little.
Highs too strong for you? Phase plugs are your friend. Some more damping in the chamber wouldn't go amiss either -that cork is unlikely to be enough. I'd get some wool underlay, and cover the top, back and one side to start with & adjust from there. Should help smooth things out a little.
Thanks all... no little kids (she's 30 this year and off on her own for quite a while now). I re-arranged the clamps after that photo to get them aimed away from traffic, though.
I'd be happy to take donations of FE207s and B20s - just send them and I'll try them.
Thanks especially to Scott and Dave for their designs, help and advice.
A bit more concerning the HF. I realized that I hadn't adjusted to the increased efficiency and was playing them fairly loud. Once I brought the volume down a bit some of the HF shout and harshness tailed off. I think that part of the problem is with my room(s). The ground floor of my house is semi-open space. You can see the ceramic tiled foyer to the left in the photo and just to the right of the bookcase in the photo, the wall opens up 11 feet into the dining/kitchen area, with all cherry flooring throughout. Looks like once I settle the driver mods I'll be suggesting to my wife that we consider some nice fiber art for the walls.
I'd be happy to take donations of FE207s and B20s - just send them and I'll try them
.Thanks especially to Scott and Dave for their designs, help and advice.
A bit more concerning the HF. I realized that I hadn't adjusted to the increased efficiency and was playing them fairly loud. Once I brought the volume down a bit some of the HF shout and harshness tailed off. I think that part of the problem is with my room(s). The ground floor of my house is semi-open space. You can see the ceramic tiled foyer to the left in the photo and just to the right of the bookcase in the photo, the wall opens up 11 feet into the dining/kitchen area, with all cherry flooring throughout. Looks like once I settle the driver mods I'll be suggesting to my wife that we consider some nice fiber art for the walls.
bobtrancho,
If you feel that the high frequencies are a little shouty you could try a BSC filter to tame them a bit. I have a variable BSC filter in the basement that I put together for Jim Shearer to try on his Metronomes. The circuit can be inserted in the positive speaker lead outside the enclosure without any changes to the speaker or the rest of your set-up and is completely reversible. If you want to give it a try let me know, I live a few miles south in Clifton Park at Exit 8 of I-87.
If you feel that the high frequencies are a little shouty you could try a BSC filter to tame them a bit. I have a variable BSC filter in the basement that I put together for Jim Shearer to try on his Metronomes. The circuit can be inserted in the positive speaker lead outside the enclosure without any changes to the speaker or the rest of your set-up and is completely reversible. If you want to give it a try let me know, I live a few miles south in Clifton Park at Exit 8 of I-87.
Martin,
Thanks for the generous offer. I could see that we were "neighbors" from your profile. Let me settle my other issues (damping, driver mods, speaker placement) first and then, if I'm still unhappy with the high frequencies, I will certainly take you up on your offer. Heck, even if I don't think I need the BSC you're welcome to come by for a cup of coffee sometime!
They are looking good, the ebonised walnut sound nice, If you have a picture i'd apreciate a look.
Thanks for the initial write up on sound as I have no idea what the CC's are going to sound like.
My only reference is the FE166's in a Fostex BLH.
I had these about 3 months then I got a set of Dave's phase plugs. You will be surprised (very), I was shocked at the improvement, it was hard to believe until my missis back me up.
Before the phase plugs the FE166's sounded great compared to what I had before, after there was more bass (a suprise, until I found a thread that explained the effects, cant remember which one, its worth finding), but the main effect was mid range and treble, its hard to put into words, certain irritations that had been in the upper midrange were gone, but it wasn't untill they had gone that I didn't hear them! I hope you get the drift of my what I'm trying to describe, you will hear it.
Im now painting my horn mouths matt black after trying to get them shiney, nit recommended in the narrow space available.
Thanks for the initial write up on sound as I have no idea what the CC's are going to sound like.
My only reference is the FE166's in a Fostex BLH.
I had these about 3 months then I got a set of Dave's phase plugs. You will be surprised (very), I was shocked at the improvement, it was hard to believe until my missis back me up.
Before the phase plugs the FE166's sounded great compared to what I had before, after there was more bass (a suprise, until I found a thread that explained the effects, cant remember which one, its worth finding), but the main effect was mid range and treble, its hard to put into words, certain irritations that had been in the upper midrange were gone, but it wasn't untill they had gone that I didn't hear them! I hope you get the drift of my what I'm trying to describe, you will hear it.
Im now painting my horn mouths matt black after trying to get them shiney, nit recommended in the narrow space available.
Marce,
I'll be spraying the flat (actually "semi-flat") black. I had all sorts of trouble trying to paint on the MDF I used for the Needles and, like you, had to sand off more paint than I eventually applied. Once I switched over to aerosol spray (Krylon here in the US) I got a beautiful, even finish. Setting up for aerosol is a PITA (venting, dust control, blocking drift from landing all over the room, etc), but once done it is well worth the effort. The Krylon brand I use over here dries for recoat in 12 minutes so you can get 3-4 coats in a short time. Just be sure you do it outside or have good venting and a mask as the fumes are very strong and lingering.
BTW, I found spackle (dry wall compound) to be the best for sealing cracks with the MDF. I tested it along with carpenter's putty and latex painter's caulk before using it. You have to really be looking to see the seams where the pieces butt on my Needles.
Hope this helps...
I'll be spraying the flat (actually "semi-flat") black. I had all sorts of trouble trying to paint on the MDF I used for the Needles and, like you, had to sand off more paint than I eventually applied. Once I switched over to aerosol spray (Krylon here in the US) I got a beautiful, even finish. Setting up for aerosol is a PITA (venting, dust control, blocking drift from landing all over the room, etc), but once done it is well worth the effort. The Krylon brand I use over here dries for recoat in 12 minutes so you can get 3-4 coats in a short time. Just be sure you do it outside or have good venting and a mask as the fumes are very strong and lingering.
BTW, I found spackle (dry wall compound) to be the best for sealing cracks with the MDF. I tested it along with carpenter's putty and latex painter's caulk before using it. You have to really be looking to see the seams where the pieces butt on my Needles.
Hope this helps...
planet10 said:
Bondo can also be used with different color hardeners for an extremely attractive finish when topped off with an application of a clearcoat.
Remember, "Nothing, absolutely nothing, in this World says DIY like Bondo!"
If you like to really show off, copy some formulas from an Advanced Physics textbook in colored fine tip pens on different areas adjacent to the Bondo prior to the clearcoat. Most people won't have any idea what they mean, and if (horror of horrors!) you actually run into somebody that does know, you can just explain that those formulas are there to remind you, in a vague way, of a happier, more productive time of your life before the terrible accident and the lengthy recovery period.
It's considered very mature to decline to talk about it further, as one must look to the future and move on without dwelling on what had promised to be a distinguished future.
Warning, if you're married, read no further!
For you young single guys, if the person asking happens to be an attractive female, I suppose then it's OK to mention that the accident was (evidently) caused by being momentarily distracted by a School Bus, full of Kindergarten kids, plunging over the bank into the river. Although you have no memory of it, witnesses later claimed you were able to get all of the children out of the sinking bus before the loss of blood from the accident caused you to pass out.
"But enough about me, do you like music?"
Best Regards,
TerryO
Love where this build is going - great craftsmanship. Saying that - your Needles were gorgeous as well. I was thinking of doing the same type of treatment your needles had, but a very glossy automotive type middle - then wood edges.
But we'll see - I'm currently trying to figure out which my first build will be.
Looking forward to updates, sound impressions and the final finished product!
But we'll see - I'm currently trying to figure out which my first build will be.
Looking forward to updates, sound impressions and the final finished product!
Quick update -
I added "wool" felt carpet underlay as damping as per Scottmoose's recommendation; damped the FE206's with duct seal; grounded the negative terminal to the frame; added felt to the rear of the magnet and cork around its circumference; and yesterday performed the dustcapectomy and phase plug installation. Each of these has progressively brought the HF under control.
If the 4 ohm Mills resistors arrive today, as expect they will, I'll add them and then fit and glue the final side. 3 clamps per speaker is not the ideal for assessing SQ and I suspect I'll get some overall improvement once the last side is properly fitted and glued in place.
Getting the clamps off the boxes will also allow me to better position them. Once that is done I will be inviting MJK and Jim Shearer over for a listen. Martin has offered to bring along his portable BSC circuit and we may play with that, also. More than his BSC, I'm looking forward to his more experienced ears.
I shoot some more photos once the glue is dry.
I added "wool" felt carpet underlay as damping as per Scottmoose's recommendation; damped the FE206's with duct seal; grounded the negative terminal to the frame; added felt to the rear of the magnet and cork around its circumference; and yesterday performed the dustcapectomy and phase plug installation. Each of these has progressively brought the HF under control.
If the 4 ohm Mills resistors arrive today, as expect they will, I'll add them and then fit and glue the final side. 3 clamps per speaker is not the ideal for assessing SQ and I suspect I'll get some overall improvement once the last side is properly fitted and glued in place.
Getting the clamps off the boxes will also allow me to better position them. Once that is done I will be inviting MJK and Jim Shearer over for a listen. Martin has offered to bring along his portable BSC circuit and we may play with that, also. More than his BSC, I'm looking forward to his more experienced ears.
I shoot some more photos once the glue is dry.
Step one in the finishing. The sides and front plywood edges were masked off and two coats of primer and three coats of semi-flat were sprayed on.
I hope to get to the edge banding tomorrow or over the weekend.
As I suspected, gluing the final side tight and substituting the 4 ohm series resistor made a nice difference. I hooked up the Needles in their place today the difference was huge. Even my wife, who was a bit nervous about the increased size, came into the room and asked how long it would be before the "nice sounding" speakers would be back. The Needles were just too small for our space.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I hope to get to the edge banding tomorrow or over the weekend.
As I suspected, gluing the final side tight and substituting the 4 ohm series resistor made a nice difference. I hooked up the Needles in their place today the difference was huge. Even my wife, who was a bit nervous about the increased size, came into the room and asked how long it would be before the "nice sounding" speakers would be back. The Needles were just too small for our space.
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