80Hz and up fullrange cabinet?

[kristleifur]

Hi,

After comparing the sound from a pair of bottle speakers with Tang Band W3-871s and a pair of Cyburgs Needles with the same drivers, I've become interested in a subwoofer-assisted fullrange system. The clarity of the bottle speakers was greater, which I suspect is due to the additional bass-handling duties of the drivers in the Needles. (Not to knock the Needles, they're my favorite speakers ever.)

I'm shooting for an 80Hz crossover frequency. I'd like to use the natural rolloff of the cabinet of the fullrange speakers, and most likely an active subwoofer lowpass.

A couple of questions:

* What is the ideal cabinet style for this sort of bandwidth-limited fullrange? Sealed boxes, rather than horns, I imagine. Not sure though, which is why I ask.

I've read that horn designs give better driver control. Besides that, horns look interesting and are a good conversation starter, which IMO is a definite plus. So:

* Are there horn designs that go down to 80Hz, but no further? Is a horn design beneficial if the intent is only going down to 80Hz? My ideal cabinet would be a small 'bookshelf' horn that rolls off at 80Hz.

Thanks!

 

[richie00boy]

I would go for a sealed cabinet, easier to integrate well with a sub and no below-resonance unloading to worry about.

 

[hm]

SAT-Horns

Hello kristleifur,

my horn-sats are made for ~100 Hz and subs:

http://www.hm-moreart.de/1.htm

 

[kristleifur]

Thank you richie00boy and hm.

@hm: Your designs are completely weird, and I love them! BTW I'm planning to build your double-3" horn when I feel more confident in my building skills. I'm too curious about it not to.

A question:
Does the horn-sat require an 8" driver? My hope was use cheap 3" drivers.

 

[hm]

Thanks,
for 3" take as a sat :

http://www.hm-moreart.de/12.htm

 

[gmilitano]

I also like the sealed approach. That is what I did with my FE127E Sealed Bipole. It works very well with a subwoofer. I have used natural roll off with good success, but I prefer an active XO.

 

[Geoff H]

Yep, if you want to stay compact, sealed is how I'd go.
However, I'd roll off slightly higher than the natural rolloff of the widerange, and adjust the bass x-o to match.

There are horns that go down to 80. Not going to fit on a bookshelf though.

Geoff.

 

[el`Ol]

The Ciare HX132 should work sealed down to 80 Hz and is not too expensive.
http://www.ciare.com/pdf/catalogo/HX132.pdf

 

[kristleifur]

Thanks, everybody.

There are horns that go down to 80. Not going to fit on a bookshelf though.

Interesting, still. Unusual speakers are preferable to small speakers Got any designs you could name, or links?

 

[Geoff H]

You could start here:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1143115#post1143115

 

[69stingray]

Quick Question, even though you have the natural low-end roll-off of the box, would you still want to put a high-pass filter to block the sub-bass frequencies from even reaching the 3" driver? Say, 60-Hz high-pass? Just curious.

 

[rcdaniel]

Quick Question, even though you have the natural low-end roll-off of the box, would you still want to put a high-pass filter to block the sub-bass frequencies from even reaching the 3" driver? Say, 60-Hz high-pass? Just curious.

I have wondered about this myself - I think so. I was thinking of a high-pass passive line level XO (PLLXO) before the main amp, with 2 line levels from a pre (possibly TVC) going to 1/ sub amp, and 2/ PLLXO. Problem is, some experienced DIYers claim that the sub amp is much better driven via its high level inputs from the main amp's speaker output (thereby ruling out PLLXO). Is it worth considering a speaker level high-pass?

Anyone out there with experience with these types of systems?..

Cheers
Raymond

 

[kristleifur]

Quick Question, even though you have the natural low-end roll-off of the box, would you still want to put a high-pass filter to block the sub-bass frequencies from even reaching the 3" driver? Say, 60-Hz high-pass? Just curious.

It should help, I think. With my Needles, I could see cone movement in low bass frequencies that were not audible. This probably 'costs' you Xmax, excursion and amplifier watts. The sound *should* clean up if the driver doesn't have to handle this imperceptible but significant load. I'm not 100% sure though, but it's my hunch.

I'll be using Tripath amps with these hypothetical speakers, so I was going to use the built-in highpass on the inputs to kill the unreproducable frequencies by reducing the value of the input cap.