I'm with Dave on the need for the enclosure to be fully sealed to sound right. With my FE108Esig METs I learned the hard way that it's useful to make the interior accessible. I ended up making the port baffles removable (by way of a saw and repair.)
Mine achieved their great sound by getting the stuffing right and adjusting the BSC. I have the BSC external so that I can fiddle with it easily, should I feel the need. Did you try changing the resistor on the BSC to find an optimum? It only takes a 0.5 ohm change to make a significant difference.
Cheers, Jim
Mine achieved their great sound by getting the stuffing right and adjusting the BSC. I have the BSC external so that I can fiddle with it easily, should I feel the need. Did you try changing the resistor on the BSC to find an optimum? It only takes a 0.5 ohm change to make a significant difference.
Cheers, Jim
I haven't (yet) changed anything from the recommended BSC and zobel on the metrinome site.
I guess I didn't feel like there was an issue with respect to the bass vs midrange levels. I figured that if I needed to change something electrically it would be the zobel. But who knows?
I fully agree that the fronts need to be glued on. But I was trying to save clutter by putting the filter stuff inside. The taper of the wood plus the rebat on the edges really leads to a tight fit (hammer to get it in place!), I hoped it would be a good enough approximation to let me finalize the electrical components and stuffing.
I guess I didn't feel like there was an issue with respect to the bass vs midrange levels. I figured that if I needed to change something electrically it would be the zobel. But who knows?
I fully agree that the fronts need to be glued on. But I was trying to save clutter by putting the filter stuff inside. The taper of the wood plus the rebat on the edges really leads to a tight fit (hammer to get it in place!), I hoped it would be a good enough approximation to let me finalize the electrical components and stuffing.
The Update --
1) squishy tape on holey brace
This helped tame the most irritating aspects of the setup. I used the sort of tape that is meant to go in door frames and such. It was easy to apply, and it helped the brace / driver junction.
2) A bit more internal damping
I had 3 sides damped with the felt underlay, 1 side in each dimension. But with the holy brace there was an area where wood faced wood. I added a couple of 2-inch wide strips that ran the length of the holey brace. This cleared up a bit of reverb that I felt was lingering.
3) Glue the face
With the damping satisfactory, I removed the filter elements and glued up the front baffle. This helped in a number of areas, mostly in the lower frequency. It might have also addressed the same issue as the squishy tape, had that not already been taken care of.
4) Add feet
I was fairly pleased with the build quality I managed to attain, but the thing still came out wobbly. I put some feet on there, but I'm not sure I like how they function yet. I stopped and listened after each of these steps, but I'm not sure if the feet made a difference or not. Bass is significantly tighter now, but it's hard to say how much of that is step 3, and how much is step 4.
5) Damp Driver Frame
I used rope caulk. I got the front flange, the legs, and the area where the frame disappears into the magnet cover. I didn't do the magnet cover, do you think I should? I considered the epoxy putty for strengthening, but again since I can't get to the frame / magnet junction I didn't bother. What areas do you think could use strengthening on the 167? The damping did further smooth the high frequency of the setup. It was another layer of refinement (after the squishy tape).
The setup started out as dissapointing in it's unfinished state, but that isn't completely unexpected. It has moved through 'acceptable' and is advancing through 'good.' Not quite 'beguiling' yet, but there is more to be done...
To Do:
a) Damp the volume between the whizzer and the cone
Is regular synthetic fluff commonly used as damping / batting an acceptable material to do this with? Is the objective to fill the whole volume? Just down at the bottom? Just up at the edge? How much to use? I haven't actually seen this one done before, though I have seen lots of people mention it...
b) Frame strengthening
I have questions about where on my driver could use this. Liberally all over, or more targeted?
c) Start to try the finishing process on some scrap for eventually doing up the cabs. Still planning to do the finish as initially detailed.
1) squishy tape on holey brace
This helped tame the most irritating aspects of the setup. I used the sort of tape that is meant to go in door frames and such. It was easy to apply, and it helped the brace / driver junction.
2) A bit more internal damping
I had 3 sides damped with the felt underlay, 1 side in each dimension. But with the holy brace there was an area where wood faced wood. I added a couple of 2-inch wide strips that ran the length of the holey brace. This cleared up a bit of reverb that I felt was lingering.
3) Glue the face
With the damping satisfactory, I removed the filter elements and glued up the front baffle. This helped in a number of areas, mostly in the lower frequency. It might have also addressed the same issue as the squishy tape, had that not already been taken care of.
4) Add feet
I was fairly pleased with the build quality I managed to attain, but the thing still came out wobbly. I put some feet on there, but I'm not sure I like how they function yet. I stopped and listened after each of these steps, but I'm not sure if the feet made a difference or not. Bass is significantly tighter now, but it's hard to say how much of that is step 3, and how much is step 4.
5) Damp Driver Frame
I used rope caulk. I got the front flange, the legs, and the area where the frame disappears into the magnet cover. I didn't do the magnet cover, do you think I should? I considered the epoxy putty for strengthening, but again since I can't get to the frame / magnet junction I didn't bother. What areas do you think could use strengthening on the 167? The damping did further smooth the high frequency of the setup. It was another layer of refinement (after the squishy tape).
The setup started out as dissapointing in it's unfinished state, but that isn't completely unexpected. It has moved through 'acceptable' and is advancing through 'good.' Not quite 'beguiling' yet, but there is more to be done...
To Do:
a) Damp the volume between the whizzer and the cone
Is regular synthetic fluff commonly used as damping / batting an acceptable material to do this with? Is the objective to fill the whole volume? Just down at the bottom? Just up at the edge? How much to use? I haven't actually seen this one done before, though I have seen lots of people mention it...
b) Frame strengthening
I have questions about where on my driver could use this. Liberally all over, or more targeted?
c) Start to try the finishing process on some scrap for eventually doing up the cabs. Still planning to do the finish as initially detailed.
THE MOD NOBODY WANTS TO TALK ABOUT
Well, I shoved a bunch of synthetic fluff in between the whizzer and the cone. Though I don't know much about this mod I was eager to try it since it sounded easy to do and to un-do.
I used the stuffing that you buy at fabric stores. I envisioned rolling it between my fingers and stuffing it into place and letting it expand to hold itself in. In reality, it was far to poofy and slippery to roll into any thread-like shape. So I just tried to get a roughly linear bit of it, and shoved it into place with an allen wrench.
I went looking for the acoustic changes. What I heard was that undamped, there seemed to be a region off axis - or rather, on the axis of the to-be-damped volume - where I could hear something. My listening material while I was doing this included some male vocals, some guy with a relatively high voice. From about a foot from the speaker, so that I could see down into the whizzer/cone gap, I could hear sibilance and a somewhat telephony sound that went away as I got stuffing into that volume. After filling things sound more natural from that same location. I used an amount of stuffing that filled up the whole volume, and now it sorta looks like my whizzers have a little santa-beard sticking out from under them.
So what did it sound like on axis? It's kinda hard to say - I've changed a number of things about the speaker recently. The irritating nature of the sound has always snuck up on me after long listening sessions rather than being in my face right away. That being said, I may feel more relaxed while listening now. I listened from about 7:30 until about 10:00 last night. Get right up on the driver and move your head around and the difference there is easily detectable. I imagine it could only be positive at the listening position, but I think I'll have to just listen to 'em for a couple of weeks now.
It occurred to me to wonder if fatigue would sneak up on me b/c the distortion was far enough off-axis that it only came to me in ambiance info. It didn't show up in my direct perception of the sound coming from the speakers. But this is all SWAG - the measurement fanatics are all probably frothing at talk like this. Perhaps one day I'll be able to put together the equipment to measure this sort of thing.
Going to have to start thinking about non-reversible mods now as well. Epoxy putty for strengthening (where?), phase plugs, enable... will I make the leap? We'll see after I listen to the current setup for a while. Oh, and I wanna felt the inside of the frame as well...
Well, I shoved a bunch of synthetic fluff in between the whizzer and the cone. Though I don't know much about this mod I was eager to try it since it sounded easy to do and to un-do.
I used the stuffing that you buy at fabric stores. I envisioned rolling it between my fingers and stuffing it into place and letting it expand to hold itself in. In reality, it was far to poofy and slippery to roll into any thread-like shape. So I just tried to get a roughly linear bit of it, and shoved it into place with an allen wrench.
I went looking for the acoustic changes. What I heard was that undamped, there seemed to be a region off axis - or rather, on the axis of the to-be-damped volume - where I could hear something. My listening material while I was doing this included some male vocals, some guy with a relatively high voice. From about a foot from the speaker, so that I could see down into the whizzer/cone gap, I could hear sibilance and a somewhat telephony sound that went away as I got stuffing into that volume. After filling things sound more natural from that same location. I used an amount of stuffing that filled up the whole volume, and now it sorta looks like my whizzers have a little santa-beard sticking out from under them.
So what did it sound like on axis? It's kinda hard to say - I've changed a number of things about the speaker recently. The irritating nature of the sound has always snuck up on me after long listening sessions rather than being in my face right away. That being said, I may feel more relaxed while listening now. I listened from about 7:30 until about 10:00 last night. Get right up on the driver and move your head around and the difference there is easily detectable. I imagine it could only be positive at the listening position, but I think I'll have to just listen to 'em for a couple of weeks now.
It occurred to me to wonder if fatigue would sneak up on me b/c the distortion was far enough off-axis that it only came to me in ambiance info. It didn't show up in my direct perception of the sound coming from the speakers. But this is all SWAG - the measurement fanatics are all probably frothing at talk like this. Perhaps one day I'll be able to put together the equipment to measure this sort of thing.
Going to have to start thinking about non-reversible mods now as well. Epoxy putty for strengthening (where?), phase plugs, enable... will I make the leap? We'll see after I listen to the current setup for a while. Oh, and I wanna felt the inside of the frame as well...
The original 98 cent whizzer mod used a small strip of furnace filter foam -- you might find that more effective than the polyfluff.
For basket strengthening we use Silent Running's SR500 http://silentcoating.com/sr_500.html
Expoxy might actually work better for magnet/basket juncture stiffening. The SR500 thou is multi-purpose, damps well, is latex, and can be worked after application.
Ductseal is useful for shaping the magnet/basket exit. The FExy7 isn't in as drastic need for shaping as the magnet is inside the basket's shadow... i still like to use it to blend the basket edge to the magnet.
dave
For basket strengthening we use Silent Running's SR500 http://silentcoating.com/sr_500.html
Expoxy might actually work better for magnet/basket juncture stiffening. The SR500 thou is multi-purpose, damps well, is latex, and can be worked after application.
Ductseal is useful for shaping the magnet/basket exit. The FExy7 isn't in as drastic need for shaping as the magnet is inside the basket's shadow... i still like to use it to blend the basket edge to the magnet.
dave
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