Hiro has at least 3 times. Vulcan is.
Victor currently has FE166eN^2 in her. FE166eSR are awaiting treatment
Has been designed, one being built, design not posted (i need a slave ro help). Bernie has been impressed enuff that he is going to build Avebury (he has no room to accomodate them like Victor, so they will likely end up at my place and be up for sale quickly). Anyone want to come pick up a gorgeous pair of solid Douglas Fir Victor?
See previous post.
It will be a race.
dave
So I am at the cutting edge here
Thanks guys for updating me and maybe the others who are following this thread, or these designs. The other threads where all cliff hangers, hence the assumptions of the post above. So eventhough you guys are farther along then I thought, it is still exciting being at the "release" of these state of the art designs.
It sounds like I need to act quickly to be the first to build the new Avebury. Even if I end up being a close second, is it not good to have something documented here for all to see? I work 60+ hours a week (in this economy, that is a blessing!) so Bernie may have a slight advantage
.
Okay, more questions:
Dave, as I see it, the Alpair 12.2 and the FE166 are kind of opposites. FE166 is a high sensitivity, higher Vas driver. And the Alpair 12.2 is a low sensitivity, low Vas driver. I believe Vas is compliance, is high Vas long throw and low Vas short throw? In other words, will Alpair 12.2 work better in the nearfield? How do they differ in dispersion, esp the highs?
It is safe to say the EnAbled FE166 sounded great in the Victor. It appears that you , Dave, like your Alpair Onkens better as you are selling the Victors! How did the solid douglas fir work out? I sure like that bamboo! I sure like that copper driver too.
I have been looking into wood, I have only found the 5 ply birch and oak, I am thinking I read somewhere that I want the 11 ply? I also have some solid maple, but I am concerned about "grooving" it all together for this large of a cabinet. I have thought about building the cabinet as drawn out in plywood, the good stuff, and adding a half inch layer of maple (in some kind of cool pattern) to the outside (just what these cabinets need, more weight). Veneer just does not have the depth of real wood, at least that has been my expirience. With that extra half inch of maple on the sides I may be able to get away with half inch ply for the sides. I read somewhere around here that it may be better to have diferent materials laminated together for cabinets? I know this is uncertain territory, I am interested in your thoughts.
I am still leaning towards building the Avebury. It seems the Alpair 12.2 EnAbled would be a better match for my LM3875 GC, which still needs to be built. I am starting with a completely new system here guys. I have not completely ruled out the Victor or the Vulcan, as Dave's EnAbled drivers sound very promising. (My pocket book likes the Fostex builds better, but really the difference is small in the grand sceme of things).
Gosh, Chris said it best, build both cabinets! (Now that would upset my pocket book!)
Thanks again guys, I look forward to your replies.
The pressure is on:
A race for the Avebury
One pair of beautiful Enabled copper Alpair 12.2 available at Dave's
And I am sure Scott can get me those plans (let me know what I need to do to get that information)
Allen
Thanks guys for updating me and maybe the others who are following this thread, or these designs. The other threads where all cliff hangers, hence the assumptions of the post above. So eventhough you guys are farther along then I thought, it is still exciting being at the "release" of these state of the art designs.
It sounds like I need to act quickly to be the first to build the new Avebury. Even if I end up being a close second, is it not good to have something documented here for all to see? I work 60+ hours a week (in this economy, that is a blessing!) so Bernie may have a slight advantage
. Okay, more questions:
Dave, as I see it, the Alpair 12.2 and the FE166 are kind of opposites. FE166 is a high sensitivity, higher Vas driver. And the Alpair 12.2 is a low sensitivity, low Vas driver. I believe Vas is compliance, is high Vas long throw and low Vas short throw? In other words, will Alpair 12.2 work better in the nearfield? How do they differ in dispersion, esp the highs?
It is safe to say the EnAbled FE166 sounded great in the Victor. It appears that you , Dave, like your Alpair Onkens better as you are selling the Victors! How did the solid douglas fir work out? I sure like that bamboo! I sure like that copper driver too.
I have been looking into wood, I have only found the 5 ply birch and oak, I am thinking I read somewhere that I want the 11 ply? I also have some solid maple, but I am concerned about "grooving" it all together for this large of a cabinet. I have thought about building the cabinet as drawn out in plywood, the good stuff, and adding a half inch layer of maple (in some kind of cool pattern) to the outside (just what these cabinets need, more weight). Veneer just does not have the depth of real wood, at least that has been my expirience. With that extra half inch of maple on the sides I may be able to get away with half inch ply for the sides. I read somewhere around here that it may be better to have diferent materials laminated together for cabinets? I know this is uncertain territory, I am interested in your thoughts.
I am still leaning towards building the Avebury. It seems the Alpair 12.2 EnAbled would be a better match for my LM3875 GC, which still needs to be built. I am starting with a completely new system here guys. I have not completely ruled out the Victor or the Vulcan, as Dave's EnAbled drivers sound very promising. (My pocket book likes the Fostex builds better, but really the difference is small in the grand sceme of things).
Gosh, Chris said it best, build both cabinets! (Now that would upset my pocket book!)
Thanks again guys, I look forward to your replies.
The pressure is on:
A race for the Avebury
One pair of beautiful Enabled copper Alpair 12.2 available at Dave's
And I am sure Scott can get me those plans (let me know what I need to do to get that information)
Allen
0415 here, so I'm not in the best state to offer much.
-Vas is volume compliance, i.e. the volume of air which has the same stiffness as the driver's suspension.
-As Dave stated, the Victors do not belong to him. They were built by Bernie, who does not have sufficient room for them (I think he just likes making things, since he's now building the larger Avebury).
-More plys the better (providing it's void-free). Stiffness is what is required for these boxes.
-Vas is volume compliance, i.e. the volume of air which has the same stiffness as the driver's suspension.
-As Dave stated, the Victors do not belong to him. They were built by Bernie, who does not have sufficient room for them (I think he just likes making things, since he's now building the larger Avebury).
-More plys the better (providing it's void-free). Stiffness is what is required for these boxes.
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The linchpin
Thanks Scott, God Bless you staying up like that to answer some of my questions. A fellow night owl!
I am trying to wrap my head around the whole volume of air = stiffness of driver suspension. Lower volume = stiffer suspension, higher volume = looser suspension. I am guessing this has nothing to do with short throw, long throw or dispersion characteristics of a driver - but then again every attribute of a driver does affect these things. So with out getting into long, possibly off topic discussion here, my decision of what cabinet to build comes down to this:
How well do the drivers disperse - wider sweet spot?
How smooth they play the 1-5K area - I think Dave's EnAble covers that with both drivers?
How well they play at both 8' (listening couch) and 4' (gaming area - not as critical)?
Which has the most headroom?
The drivers in question are the EnAbled FE166, EnAbled Alpair 12.2, and EnAbled FE206. (I am guessing the FE206 does not do as well on the first two, but best on the fourth)
Other considerations:
Amp is the LM3875 GC - Daniel's Basic Kit
Light speed volume control
Digital Play back system is PC
In the looking zone for a DAC (more then likely with a tube buffer stage)
And will be adding one or two subwoofers for the <60Hz stuff
The linchpin is the driver!..
...I am really leaning towards the Alpair 12.2, I am impressed to the attention to detail put into that driver! Yet it sounds like Dave's modified Fostex's are no slouches either.
Hats off to Bernie, I see so many people that like diy but do not like to build. God Bless him.
I have decided to build my cabinet with the 3/4" 11 ply birch and the additional maple on the outside, as Bernie is building these cabinets also. I am planning on varying the thickness of the maple to create front and sides with varying thickness. I will post drawings when I have picked out a cabinet. Do not worry, Scott, I will be following your internal plans exactly. I hope your plans tell me how to draw that big curve on the back! (that is not something you can do with a drafter's compass!)
I will throw this in, just for fun, to plant the seed. My listening room is carpeted. There are unfinished hardwood floors underneath. Would the horns work better with the hardwood? The carpet is about shot, but it is sure warm in the winter. What do you all reckon?
We are getting there guys. I am hoping to be ordering drivers and plans later on tomorrow. I hope you guys recognize the great service you are doing for me.
Thanks Scott, God Bless you staying up like that to answer some of my questions. A fellow night owl!
I am trying to wrap my head around the whole volume of air = stiffness of driver suspension. Lower volume = stiffer suspension, higher volume = looser suspension. I am guessing this has nothing to do with short throw, long throw or dispersion characteristics of a driver - but then again every attribute of a driver does affect these things. So with out getting into long, possibly off topic discussion here, my decision of what cabinet to build comes down to this:
How well do the drivers disperse - wider sweet spot?
How smooth they play the 1-5K area - I think Dave's EnAble covers that with both drivers?
How well they play at both 8' (listening couch) and 4' (gaming area - not as critical)?
Which has the most headroom?
The drivers in question are the EnAbled FE166, EnAbled Alpair 12.2, and EnAbled FE206. (I am guessing the FE206 does not do as well on the first two, but best on the fourth)
Other considerations:
Amp is the LM3875 GC - Daniel's Basic Kit
Light speed volume control
Digital Play back system is PC
In the looking zone for a DAC (more then likely with a tube buffer stage)
And will be adding one or two subwoofers for the <60Hz stuff
The linchpin is the driver!..
...I am really leaning towards the Alpair 12.2, I am impressed to the attention to detail put into that driver! Yet it sounds like Dave's modified Fostex's are no slouches either.
Hats off to Bernie, I see so many people that like diy but do not like to build. God Bless him.
I have decided to build my cabinet with the 3/4" 11 ply birch and the additional maple on the outside, as Bernie is building these cabinets also. I am planning on varying the thickness of the maple to create front and sides with varying thickness. I will post drawings when I have picked out a cabinet. Do not worry, Scott, I will be following your internal plans exactly. I hope your plans tell me how to draw that big curve on the back! (that is not something you can do with a drafter's compass!)
I will throw this in, just for fun, to plant the seed. My listening room is carpeted. There are unfinished hardwood floors underneath. Would the horns work better with the hardwood? The carpet is about shot, but it is sure warm in the winter. What do you all reckon?
We are getting there guys. I am hoping to be ordering drivers and plans later on tomorrow. I hope you guys recognize the great service you are doing for me.
Allen:
see page 5 of this document for help on drawing the curve by hand
http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FH/beta/FH-Mk3-betaDoc-251010.pdf
while specific dimensions relate to the FH3, the methodology is the same
see page 5 of this document for help on drawing the curve by hand
http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FH/beta/FH-Mk3-betaDoc-251010.pdf
while specific dimensions relate to the FH3, the methodology is the same
The race is on!
Thanks Zia, those were the two most important critiria on the list. I am sure the better dispersion will be better for nearfield listening also.
So the Avebury it is guys!
I have sent Planet-10 an e-mail. I will be calling you guys tomorrow after work to place my order for the copper Alpair 12.2s (if you still have them?). My address and phone number are in the e-mail. the subject reads "The race is on - ArtsyAllen" (In case it ended up in the spam folder).
I have some kind of "defualt Mail client" problem with my computer, so I can not get a hold of Scott at Woden design to get plans via the contacting links on his site. I can e-mail him directly if I had his address. Let me know what you need me to do.
Thanks Chris, for the link to build the curved jig, I have already printed it out!
So tomorrow is pricing out wood day. I am not sure if my local stores can get the 11 ply stuff. The nearest big box store is 1 1/2 hours away, although I may be able to get free delivery if I am willing to wait longer...
(But, this IS a race, and I am sure Bernie has a HUGE lead on me!)
Tomorrow evening is the room reversal project and maybe clean-up rug night - who knows what is lurking behind that couch!
The adventure has begun... Yee Haa!
God Bless,
Allen
Thanks Zia, those were the two most important critiria on the list. I am sure the better dispersion will be better for nearfield listening also.
So the Avebury it is guys!
I have sent Planet-10 an e-mail. I will be calling you guys tomorrow after work to place my order for the copper Alpair 12.2s (if you still have them?). My address and phone number are in the e-mail. the subject reads "The race is on - ArtsyAllen" (In case it ended up in the spam folder).
I have some kind of "defualt Mail client" problem with my computer, so I can not get a hold of Scott at Woden design to get plans via the contacting links on his site. I can e-mail him directly if I had his address. Let me know what you need me to do.
Thanks Chris, for the link to build the curved jig, I have already printed it out!
So tomorrow is pricing out wood day. I am not sure if my local stores can get the 11 ply stuff. The nearest big box store is 1 1/2 hours away, although I may be able to get free delivery if I am willing to wait longer...
(But, this IS a race, and I am sure Bernie has a HUGE lead on me!)
Tomorrow evening is the room reversal project and maybe clean-up rug night - who knows what is lurking behind that couch!
The adventure has begun... Yee Haa!
God Bless,
Allen
Weird. Scott's Woden email, and the mail address you used to contact me are on the same mail server.
You may not be able to get what you need from the big box stores. The 18mm BB is 13 plies. But unless you get creative, you'll want to find 4x8 sheets, standard 5x5 BB would necessiate some creativity for at least the sides. Chris can advise.
Not necessarily. He is helping prep for diyFEST and won't likely be able to start for at least a couple weeks, and given that you just got the last A12s (other than some in someone's closet) in North America, that he is proposing building speakers he himself has no room to live with (he has the addiction bad
), i may talk him into something i have drivers for (like Samhain maybe, or maybe the 20 sided tapered dMar-Ken7 derivative (which he could accomodate)), and if he built Avebury between us we'd have 4 sets of boxes with 2 sets of A12... anyone with a set of non-captive A12 want a set of Mar-Ken12T boxes at a make room price?dave
Allen - maybe give the folks at Forslund a call? While the specialty plywoods best suited to a project such as this (4x8 Europly, Russian Birch Ply, Appleply, etc) may not be on their normal stock list, I'd be surprised if they couldn't provide a bit of assistance in sourcing for you.
You want the 13 ply 3/4" (or 18mm) - shop grade is fine if you plan on post veneering or sealing and painting.
Traditional "Baltic Birch" comes in a 5x5ft (1524mm^2) sheet, and as Dave hinted, there are several ways to work around that constraint on enclosures taller than 60"; I've generally restricted myself to smaller than that for both WAF and health considerations (and at my age, building moving anything larger without assistance is hazardous to my back) .
You want the 13 ply 3/4" (or 18mm) - shop grade is fine if you plan on post veneering or sealing and painting.
Traditional "Baltic Birch" comes in a 5x5ft (1524mm^2) sheet, and as Dave hinted, there are several ways to work around that constraint on enclosures taller than 60"; I've generally restricted myself to smaller than that for both WAF and health considerations (and at my age, building moving anything larger without assistance is hazardous to my back) .
I'd be more inclined to try biscuits or even better a full width spline - you could even use a piece of solid wood to make the panel joint an aesthetic feature rather than a material constraint.
I am committed now!
Chris, how do you know about Forslund's? Have you been to 'da U.P. before? Unfortunately, the folks did not know what Baltic Birch ply was! Great store, just a high turn around staff... ...but the Good News is Menards (big box store) in Rhielander, WI can special order 3/4, 13 ply Baltic Birch in 4' X 8' sheets! This is one and half hours away, but at least I know I can get some and will not need to do the "splicing" stuff mentioned above. Thanks for coming along, Andrewbee, Gychang and Jimbro. It is nice to know that others are getting something out of this project along side me.
I ordered the EnAbled Alpair 12.2s from Dave today, so there is no turning back now! I also got Scott's e-mail and hope to have the plans in a couple of days. Scott, the subject is "The Avebury race is on - ArtsyAllen". Soon I will be done with the money spending part - my least favorite, and can start the funnest part - building!
It looks like we will be playing the waiting game this next week - the calm before the creative storm...
Yet...
I have GC amp to build,
A room to prepare,
A garage sale to do,
Some people to uplift,
A few extra jobs to take on,
etc...
I will be about $200 over-budget because at this point I do not want to mess around, I really want to do this project justice. I got the best Alpair 12.2 driver, a cutting edge plan, and the right wood - there are no excuses. I may want a better amp, DAC and Subwoofers, but that can come later.
Thanks for coming along of this journey ...
Allen
Chris, how do you know about Forslund's? Have you been to 'da U.P. before? Unfortunately, the folks did not know what Baltic Birch ply was! Great store, just a high turn around staff... ...but the Good News is Menards (big box store) in Rhielander, WI can special order 3/4, 13 ply Baltic Birch in 4' X 8' sheets! This is one and half hours away, but at least I know I can get some and will not need to do the "splicing" stuff mentioned above. Thanks for coming along, Andrewbee, Gychang and Jimbro. It is nice to know that others are getting something out of this project along side me.
I ordered the EnAbled Alpair 12.2s from Dave today, so there is no turning back now! I also got Scott's e-mail and hope to have the plans in a couple of days. Scott, the subject is "The Avebury race is on - ArtsyAllen". Soon I will be done with the money spending part - my least favorite, and can start the funnest part - building!
It looks like we will be playing the waiting game this next week - the calm before the creative storm...
Yet...
I have GC amp to build,
A room to prepare,
A garage sale to do,
Some people to uplift,
A few extra jobs to take on,
etc...
I will be about $200 over-budget because at this point I do not want to mess around, I really want to do this project justice. I got the best Alpair 12.2 driver, a cutting edge plan, and the right wood - there are no excuses. I may want a better amp, DAC and Subwoofers, but that can come later.
Thanks for coming along of this journey ...
Allen
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Allen - a simple google search for "building materials in (your area)"
good news on the plywood - all the tricky board stretching methods aside, the right sized material will always save you time, frustration and second-guessing after the project is finished
enjoy and post some photos when yer dun
cheers
good news on the plywood - all the tricky board stretching methods aside, the right sized material will always save you time, frustration and second-guessing after the project is finished
enjoy and post some photos when yer dun
cheers
The garage sale will wait.
This is going a lot faster then I planned. I got the plans from Scott and picked up some baltic birch from Menards today. It seems everything is falling in place with this project, as Menards will no longer be stocking this item, it is becoming a special order item only. They had 5 sheets left after I got mine, I did not want to take any chances.
There are other things I really need to be doing, but I have I strong desire to get this build going! This is irrational isn't it? Shouldn't we be focusing on, auh... ...paying bills, eating well, maintaining the house, staying in shape, providing for our families, getting to death safely?..
...There are only two things that will stop the inspiration I have right now and that is an act of God and spending time with my duaghter. Well, my duaghter is on holiday with her mom, and it seems to me, God is helping me get this done! So...
This is going a lot faster then I planned. I got the plans from Scott and picked up some baltic birch from Menards today. It seems everything is falling in place with this project, as Menards will no longer be stocking this item, it is becoming a special order item only. They had 5 sheets left after I got mine, I did not want to take any chances.
There are other things I really need to be doing, but I have I strong desire to get this build going! This is irrational isn't it? Shouldn't we be focusing on, auh... ...paying bills, eating well, maintaining the house, staying in shape, providing for our families, getting to death safely?..
...There are only two things that will stop the inspiration I have right now and that is an act of God and spending time with my duaghter. Well, my duaghter is on holiday with her mom, and it seems to me, God is helping me get this done! So...
Geting Warmed up
Okay everyone, got the important stuff done on the weekend in reguards to life... Actually it is very serious stuff, which is why I need a project like this to keep me in high spirits.
I started building the GC amps, pretty cool really. I have worked on electronics before, but never built anything from stratch like this. Got the boards done, now comes my favorite part, designing the enclosures...
Okay everyone, got the important stuff done on the weekend in reguards to life... Actually it is very serious stuff, which is why I need a project like this to keep me in high spirits.
I started building the GC amps, pretty cool really. I have worked on electronics before, but never built anything from stratch like this. Got the boards done, now comes my favorite part, designing the enclosures...
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Nice find
It is always nice when you stumble across something like this in the shop... It was in the rough when I found it, but as you can see, it sands down really nice! I am thinking this will make reallly nice fronts for the GC, with a complimentary trim wood of some kind. I would like to use this to detail the speaker cabinets also, I just do not have a lot of this. I'll be starting the cabinets soon, now that I am warmed up. My room is almost reversed, just need to install a new phone jack for the internet connection. I hope you all are having a great night!
Namaste,
Allen
It is always nice when you stumble across something like this in the shop... It was in the rough when I found it, but as you can see, it sands down really nice! I am thinking this will make reallly nice fronts for the GC, with a complimentary trim wood of some kind. I would like to use this to detail the speaker cabinets also, I just do not have a lot of this. I'll be starting the cabinets soon, now that I am warmed up. My room is almost reversed, just need to install a new phone jack for the internet connection. I hope you all are having a great night!
Namaste,
Allen
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