Mikasa, next? - Page 3

gychang · 31st July 2008, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scottmoose
Nice work Greg, hope you like them.

I like to cabinet, fine looking, design is excellent, sound need adjusting as u suggested since the speaker is not the ideal for the cabinet. Will take some time to get it right, and may have to get the Fostex speaker for which it is designed for.

Like the looks definitely more effort than the BIB speakers. Enjoyed building it.

How is the sound affected if I add or remove more of the stuffing in the compression chamber?

gychang

Scottmoose · 31st July 2008, 01:01 PM

By adding material, you'll damp things down more, particularly at the upper end of the cabinet's operation.

renfrow · 31st July 2008, 11:22 PM

The midrange muddiness may be from reflections off the back of the cabinet... I'd cut the reflector a kerf's width wider than it calls for, then cut it in half. That way it would fit through the speaker hole, and you could install it a half at a time in it's proper location.

Tom.

gychang · 1st August 2008, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by renfrow
The midrange muddiness may be from reflections off the back of the cabinet... I'd cut the reflector a kerf's width wider than it calls for, then cut it in half. That way it would fit through the speaker hole, and you could install it a half at a time in it's proper location.

Tom.

thanks, I forgot to install the reflector, but don't understand the wording, kerf's width? and cut in half?

I will try to glue on the reflector, rough estimate of width size and put some glue on it...

gychang

Bluto · 3rd August 2008, 07:47 AM

Gychang -

For a guy with both limited space and tools you definitely put out some nice looking stuff. Your album is to be proud of.

Curious as to what set of speakers you find most satisfying with most of your music?

Bluto

gychang · 3rd August 2008, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bluto
Gychang -

For a guy with both limited space and tools you definitely put out some nice looking stuff. Your album is to be proud of.

Curious as to what set of speakers you find most satisfying with most of your music?

Bluto

thanks for the compliment, lots of small mistakes u don't see but I tried to seal things tight (lots of liquid nails and caulk...)

My favorite is this: If u can cut a 90degree with circular saw, and have a strong back, and looking for a non-golden ear "best sound for a $" this is it....

I have no difficulties with living with all Scott's designs (BIB, Half Chang, Metronome etc), BIB is definitely easiest sound for woodwork challenged. Cyburg Needle is good if wife insists on a smaller cabinet. small DelSol is just a "bedroom" speaker lacking bass pictured here.

gychang

Bluto · 10th August 2008, 08:07 AM

I kind of wondered if it would come down to the 'Mighty B20' !
I started my interest in DIY with that driver and I keep coming back and looking at it. I'm betting it really performs with a phase plug and enabling. Simply no room in Home for it with other priorities. I really like what Nelson Pass did with it as well and would like to try that .

It's looking like CSS / TB Horns for living room HT, OB for the Office and TL for the Dining room for me at this point. I need to use drivers I've purchased.

Your errors don't show, thats all that counts.

Bluto

gychang · 10th August 2008, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bluto
I kind of wondered if it would come down to the 'Mighty B20' !
I started my interest in DIY with that driver and I keep coming back and looking at it. I'm betting it really performs with a phase plug and enabling. Simply no room in Home for it with other priorities. I really like what Nelson Pass did with it as well and would like to try that .

Bluto

I am somewhat doubtful if the treatment on B20 will erase a need for a supplemental tweeter, but I have not tried the phase plug and Enable...

gychang

GM · 10th August 2008, 04:05 PM

Between a 1.5" diameter VC and a decoupling ring fairly close to the whizzer to limit its TL mode BW, there's no way a phase plug or selective cone damping will help its HF response enough to not need at least a super tweeter and the large number of decoupling rings (mechanical XOs) will severely limit its ultimate clarity.

That said, IIRC at least one 'tweaker' managed to boost it probably to its limit by removing the whizzer, treating the diaphragm with his own blend of shellac to increase its break-up modes BW to make it more tweeter-like and replacing the DC with an aluminum one cut from the bottom of a soda can, then went back and did some selective damping with his own blend of Dammar.

A great learning exercise for the avid DIYer, but at this level of mods, better for the rest to just buy a better driver unless of course the budget is stretched to the limit for the foreseeable future.

GM

Kensai · 12th August 2008, 02:19 PM

The phase plug and enabling treatments change the treble character of the B20 in a positive manner, but do not appreciably extend its reach on the top end. The B20 responds well to EQ up top and performs acceptably without a tweeter under those conditions. If you're not intending for your design to always run with EQ for the top, you will need a supertweeter.

Bluto, I had the B20s on 12"x18" OBs hinge mounted to my desk for nearly two years. My PC was my source there, so I was able to apply EQ top and bottom and was getting from about 50Hz to at least 16kHz (like I've mentioned elsewhere, there's only one driver that I've been able to prove that I'm hearing higher than 16kHz with, so YMMV). My point is that I bet you've got space for that

They were really good stock (so good that I kinda beat myself up for waiting so long to try them out), and the P10 phase plugs I installed really put them in a more refined class altogether. The enabling treatment is a wonderful thing, but I don't recommend it for OB use. The front and back waves become so dissimilar that their interaction becomes confused, often a bit disorienting to listen to.

So, for OB use, I would recommend the phase plugs and maybe puzzle coating (that was part of my enabling process; Dave at P10 did it for me), both sides, and possibly damar for the whizzer. If you're going with a real enclosure, enabling, while expensive (either for someone else to do for you or in time/materials/learning curve for you; say $200+ for a pair), leaves you with a driver that if it sold retail in that form stock, would still be worth every dollar and competitive in its price range.

They're in the big sealed cabs in my living room right now with Neo3PDRs cap with the stock Yamaha 2.2uF caps that were hot glued into the cabs, and they sing, clear as day and wonderfully fun and listenable, even with the crappy old Pioneer VSX-411 receiver driving them (kinda dull and muffled compared to my favored digital amps) and their suboptimal positioning (laying on their sides in the outer bottom compartments of a very large entertainment center, so the driver center is maybe 10" off the floor).

Then again, you've already got some interesting drivers on hand that I'd love to play with, so get to playing and show us what you've done.

Kensai

31st July 2008, 11:22 PM	#23
renfrow diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah, USA	The midrange muddiness may be from reflections off the back of the cabinet... I'd cut the reflector a kerf's width wider than it calls for, then cut it in half. That way it would fit through the speaker hole, and you could install it a half at a time in it's proper location. Tom. __________________ Now, we can do this the hard way, or... well, actually there's just the hard way. -- Buffy Summers (Buffy the Vampire Slayer)

10th August 2008, 04:05 PM	#29
GM diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Chamblee, Ga.	Between a 1.5" diameter VC and a decoupling ring fairly close to the whizzer to limit its TL mode BW, there's no way a phase plug or selective cone damping will help its HF response enough to not need at least a super tweeter and the large number of decoupling rings (mechanical XOs) will severely limit its ultimate clarity. That said, IIRC at least one 'tweaker' managed to boost it probably to its limit by removing the whizzer, treating the diaphragm with his own blend of shellac to increase its break-up modes BW to make it more tweeter-like and replacing the DC with an aluminum one cut from the bottom of a soda can, then went back and did some selective damping with his own blend of Dammar. A great learning exercise for the avid DIYer, but at this level of mods, better for the rest to just buy a better driver unless of course the budget is stretched to the limit for the foreseeable future. GM __________________ Loud is Beautiful if it's Clean! As always though, the usual disclaimers apply to this post's contents.

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31st July 2008, 01:01 PM	#22
Scottmoose diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: UK	By adding material, you'll damp things down more, particularly at the upper end of the cabinet's operation.

3rd August 2008, 07:47 AM	#25
Bluto diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: WI.- near the Dells	Gychang - For a guy with both limited space and tools you definitely put out some nice looking stuff. Your album is to be proud of. Curious as to what set of speakers you find most satisfying with most of your music? Bluto

10th August 2008, 08:07 AM	#27
Bluto diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: WI.- near the Dells	I kind of wondered if it would come down to the 'Mighty B20' ! I started my interest in DIY with that driver and I keep coming back and looking at it. I'm betting it really performs with a phase plug and enabling. Simply no room in Home for it with other priorities. I really like what Nelson Pass did with it as well and would like to try that . It's looking like CSS / TB Horns for living room HT, OB for the Office and TL for the Dining room for me at this point. I need to use drivers I've purchased. Your errors don't show, thats all that counts. Bluto

12th August 2008, 02:19 PM	#30
Kensai diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: St. Louis	The phase plug and enabling treatments change the treble character of the B20 in a positive manner, but do not appreciably extend its reach on the top end. The B20 responds well to EQ up top and performs acceptably without a tweeter under those conditions. If you're not intending for your design to always run with EQ for the top, you will need a supertweeter. Bluto, I had the B20s on 12"x18" OBs hinge mounted to my desk for nearly two years. My PC was my source there, so I was able to apply EQ top and bottom and was getting from about 50Hz to at least 16kHz (like I've mentioned elsewhere, there's only one driver that I've been able to prove that I'm hearing higher than 16kHz with, so YMMV). My point is that I bet you've got space for that They were really good stock (so good that I kinda beat myself up for waiting so long to try them out), and the P10 phase plugs I installed really put them in a more refined class altogether. The enabling treatment is a wonderful thing, but I don't recommend it for OB use. The front and back waves become so dissimilar that their interaction becomes confused, often a bit disorienting to listen to. So, for OB use, I would recommend the phase plugs and maybe puzzle coating (that was part of my enabling process; Dave at P10 did it for me), both sides, and possibly damar for the whizzer. If you're going with a real enclosure, enabling, while expensive (either for someone else to do for you or in time/materials/learning curve for you; say $200+ for a pair), leaves you with a driver that if it sold retail in that form stock, would still be worth every dollar and competitive in its price range. They're in the big sealed cabs in my living room right now with Neo3PDRs cap with the stock Yamaha 2.2uF caps that were hot glued into the cabs, and they sing, clear as day and wonderfully fun and listenable, even with the crappy old Pioneer VSX-411 receiver driving them (kinda dull and muffled compared to my favored digital amps) and their suboptimal positioning (laying on their sides in the outer bottom compartments of a very large entertainment center, so the driver center is maybe 10" off the floor). Then again, you've already got some interesting drivers on hand that I'd love to play with, so get to playing and show us what you've done. Kensai