Hi, everyone.
I was just wondering if someone could quickly summarize for me the reasons why they choose to design single-driver speakers instead of multi-way speakers. In other words, if you what advantages does a single driver speaker have over a multi-way speaker that might sell me on the concept?
I was just wondering if someone could quickly summarize for me the reasons why they choose to design single-driver speakers instead of multi-way speakers. In other words, if you what advantages does a single driver speaker have over a multi-way speaker that might sell me on the concept?
Tell that to someone who's just shelled out for a pair of new Supravox field-coils... 
I like them for acoustic music in particular as there isn't an XO slap-bang in the middle of the vocal regions & the point-source coherence is lovely.
For rock, I still believe multi-ways win out, providing they're designed right, and keep the XO out of the critical zones. A good horn-loaded WB driver, supported by supertweeters at the top and subs for the bottom end (tapped horns, pipe-horns or TLs for preference) would make me a happy camper. Either that, or run the whole lot dipole, aside from the subs. That last would need a few more drivers, and even more power though...
I like them for acoustic music in particular as there isn't an XO slap-bang in the middle of the vocal regions & the point-source coherence is lovely.
For rock, I still believe multi-ways win out, providing they're designed right, and keep the XO out of the critical zones. A good horn-loaded WB driver, supported by supertweeters at the top and subs for the bottom end (tapped horns, pipe-horns or TLs for preference) would make me a happy camper. Either that, or run the whole lot dipole, aside from the subs. That last would need a few more drivers, and even more power though...
They can be - and it is cool if that is why you prefer them - tho that is not so in all cases. Also, one should consider what is involved in a build to get the most out of some drivers, eg. BLH, BVR etc. There are likely some pretty inexpensive two-ways that present music nicely...
I am looking forward to reading other's motivations, especially those that have spent a little more than the minimum on their drivers and implementations. Not being elitist; just interested in what, sonically, has people pursuing this route..
Cheers
Raymond
planet10 said:
Isn't that a FR with a pair of helper woofs?
You can even have a 3-way and people will still call it a FR if the "mid-range is a FR driver with XOs way out there... i call it a mostly FR. OA good start is to be mostly happy listening to just the midrange...
dave
I'm with you 100% on that Dave...
Why? Vocals, acoustic, jazz, Subtle music with lots of detail, if you like that they will give you goosebumps.
When a person sings how does the sound come out?
from their mouth with perhaps some low freq from the chest and throat area, just like a good FR cabinet.
If you have typical 40 year old hearing and aren't fussed about feeling the bass, dont mind some intricate cabinet work then cheap fullrange is for you.
If you want loud music the fullranges are still good, mostly they are extremely efficient compared to most multiways. If you spend more on drivers you can go ridiculously efficient.
Check out the AER Mk1 drivers, expensive but incredible, worth every penny/euro if you have good high end hearing.
have a look at the Frugal horn, remember the rave reviews are from consumers, not salesman or magazine writers.
When a person sings how does the sound come out?
from their mouth with perhaps some low freq from the chest and throat area, just like a good FR cabinet.
If you have typical 40 year old hearing and aren't fussed about feeling the bass, dont mind some intricate cabinet work then cheap fullrange is for you.
If you want loud music the fullranges are still good, mostly they are extremely efficient compared to most multiways. If you spend more on drivers you can go ridiculously efficient.
Check out the AER Mk1 drivers, expensive but incredible, worth every penny/euro if you have good high end hearing.
have a look at the Frugal horn, remember the rave reviews are from consumers, not salesman or magazine writers.
I'm new to the full-range club myself. So far I've only 'built' a pair using Radio Shack 5" drivers and cardboard Metronome cabinets. These things don't do much right given the cardboard's lack of stiffness and weight, and the porous seams. But they do vocals amazingly well, it was just stunning the first time I heard them. It is coherent with no sibilance, and this is true even with the rising response of the driver.
In comparison, my two ways go down to 28hz, have a very smooth top end with Scan-speak drivers and a very stiff cabinet. They sound very nice but I was still amazed by the sound of these $10 speakers.
My big fear is that I'll build them for real and my kids won't be happy because they don't rock. OTOH, I built little MurphyBlaster OW1s for my son and he's perfectly happy with them and how loud they go. Besides, they use iPods and AAC 128 iTunes music to feed them and that never sounds great.
In comparison, my two ways go down to 28hz, have a very smooth top end with Scan-speak drivers and a very stiff cabinet. They sound very nice but I was still amazed by the sound of these $10 speakers.
My big fear is that I'll build them for real and my kids won't be happy because they don't rock. OTOH, I built little MurphyBlaster OW1s for my son and he's perfectly happy with them and how loud they go. Besides, they use iPods and AAC 128 iTunes music to feed them and that never sounds great.
A lot can be said for owning at least one of each, but I've yet to hear a two or three-way design that matches the midrange clarity of a good single driver design, and since most of my music listening these days sounds better on single drivers, that's what I prefer.
Doug
Oh yea, one more thing. I don't own an amp over 10 watts. That's another reason I like single drivers.
Doug
Oh yea, one more thing. I don't own an amp over 10 watts. That's another reason I like single drivers.
and of course this is only the beginning...
then there are arguements for open baffles and any of the "boxed" designs, but that is a whole other consideration.
Being an economically challenged enthusiast, fullrangers give ya the most for the least (just like Candice Bergen said). And single fullrangers can rock.
For me personally (and I'm a fairly new convert), it is that so much is available for so little $$$ comparitively speaking. Consider that manufacturing costs added to a loudspeaker if the same quality of drivers is to be used. eg: a good 8" and a good tweeter, and crossover. Also XOs can help create some difficult to drive loads to an amplifier. And energy is wasted as heat powering through the cross over ('cause nuthin's for free).
Now if a good 8" fuill ranger is used, there is no x over, no tweeter. less internal wiring. And often the fullrangers are not much different in price to decent quality multiway components. In many cases less $$$. Even at the upper end of the price spectrum, an Esostar tweeter is not cheap, nor are good 8 mid-woofers.
There is also another benefit: DIYs don't have to become crossover experts.Good cross overs require a lot of research and many protoypes to be the best possible. Not everyone has the time or resources.
Do yourself a favour and seek out someone local to you via this forum or others, and see if a demostration could be provided (or go to the next sound fest that is possible for you to attend. It will be worth the effort, then you can convince yourself)
then there are arguements for open baffles
and any of the "boxed" designs, but that is a whole other consideration.Being an economically challenged enthusiast, fullrangers give ya the most for the least (just like Candice Bergen said). And single fullrangers can rock.
For me personally (and I'm a fairly new convert), it is that so much is available for so little $$$ comparitively speaking. Consider that manufacturing costs added to a loudspeaker if the same quality of drivers is to be used. eg: a good 8" and a good tweeter, and crossover. Also XOs can help create some difficult to drive loads to an amplifier. And energy is wasted as heat powering through the cross over ('cause nuthin's for free).
Now if a good 8" fuill ranger is used, there is no x over, no tweeter. less internal wiring. And often the fullrangers are not much different in price to decent quality multiway components. In many cases less $$$. Even at the upper end of the price spectrum, an Esostar tweeter is not cheap, nor are good 8 mid-woofers.
There is also another benefit: DIYs don't have to become crossover experts.Good cross overs require a lot of research and many protoypes to be the best possible. Not everyone has the time or resources.
Do yourself a favour and seek out someone local to you via this forum or others, and see if a demostration could be provided (or go to the next sound fest that is possible for you to attend. It will be worth the effort, then you can convince yourself
)Coherence.
They sound seamless from top to bottom and the best of them image brilliantly, with great depth and stability. For that I'm willing to forego a few Hz extension and dB loudness.
I also like the idea of the simplicity of them (so does my amp!). Cost was never an issue with me - I'd pursue a good, expensive fullrange rather than a cheaper multi-way any day.
They sound seamless from top to bottom and the best of them image brilliantly, with great depth and stability. For that I'm willing to forego a few Hz extension and dB loudness.
I also like the idea of the simplicity of them (so does my amp!). Cost was never an issue with me - I'd pursue a good, expensive fullrange rather than a cheaper multi-way any day.
Why? well they are fairly simple until you get into BLHs.
I am with Scott on this. Use a LF driver to get to around 200-240 Hz then XO to a WB to around 10K Hz then if the FR of the WB driver starts to roll off ,add a quality ribbon or horn.
Ani i still perfer Lpads simply due to the ability to adjust different drivers to different room conditions and individual taste.
ron
I am with Scott on this. Use a LF driver to get to around 200-240 Hz then XO to a WB to around 10K Hz then if the FR of the WB driver starts to roll off ,add a quality ribbon or horn.
Ani i still perfer Lpads simply due to the ability to adjust different drivers to different room conditions and individual taste.
ron
>>> After spending alot of time trying to optimize a good 8" 2-way design, I was surprised at how a little 4" fullrange could sound better all through the midrange...
Pretty much my experience too.
This past weekend i was at a friends house that i donated a pair of speakers. Basically a Vifa kit. The crossover that came with was too hot so i changed the caps. The original caps are probably still on the board disconnected. Anyway, music was playing and it felt strange critiquing the speakers… they were way too spitty. I would not want them.
He got them free and thinks they are great. But if he spent some time with full or wide range drivers in a BIB he may feel differently.
Pretty much my experience too.
This past weekend i was at a friends house that i donated a pair of speakers. Basically a Vifa kit. The crossover that came with was too hot so i changed the caps. The original caps are probably still on the board disconnected. Anyway, music was playing and it felt strange critiquing the speakers… they were way too spitty. I would not want them.
He got them free and thinks they are great. But if he spent some time with full or wide range drivers in a BIB he may feel differently.
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