We can't really help you much until you give some more information. What are you intending to do with them? How are you planning to load them? What sort of music do you like? What sort of musical presentation are you after? How big is your room? Is it live or dead, in its resonant character? What's the rest of your system like? Are aesthetics important? How large can you go?
TonyE said:
Problem with that is the chosen 'objective' physical criteria may (almost certainly) suit one driver better than another, when under different conditions, be they subtle or dramatic, the results could be reversed. In reality it's not objective at all. Also remember that what one person enjoys for their 'pure pleasure of listening' might not be what you like. That's a purely subjective thing, which tends to increase, not decrease with price. The high end of audio has always been about extremes, while the budget end usually sounds much of a muchness. That's why I asked a) what you personally prefer, and b) what you're planning to do with the drivers, because one is not automatically better than the other: they'll offer different things, suited to different setups, rooms, methods of loading, personal taste etc. I'm not trying to be difficult here, or scupper your plans -quite the reverse. What I'm simply asking for is for you to give us something to work on, so we're in a position to make a sensible suggestion, rather than just randomly saying 'the x is best' because in this particular room, system, method of loading, & programme material it happens to suit one person's preferences better than the other.
FWIW, as a rule, Supravox drivers, as raw units, tend to err slightly on the warm side of neutral, and hang images back in a deeper soundstage, while the Fertin drivers, as raw units, are slightly on the brighter side of neutral and project them forward more vigorously. But these trates will be radically affected by all the aforementioned criteria, so I wouldn't set much stock by it.
yes, you are rigth Scottmoose, but, by my experience, never make questions like : which music you prefer or what kind of sound is ideal for you because what I'm thinking is this moment can be untrue to oneself just by a new experience, listening new things/configuration, however I never had the possibility to hear that components, so, I hope I can collect more informations by who,in this forum, had a direct experience. For example your last infomation can be enough useful for
me, you know this is the same problem that someone have when have to buy without try, at this price!
me, you know this is the same problem that someone have when have to buy without try, at this price!
Tell me about it. I know the feeling well. 
Just remember the provisos attached -a general description of the unit in a raw state or in one cabinet, or one system, or one room, won't really tell you much & I wouldn't want to spend a lot of money based purely on that, or even a number of them. That said, with mega-price units like these from relatively small companies, there isn't a great deal of option, as for obvious reasons you're unlikely to ever be able to hear the things in advance.
In a spirit of curiosity, what are you planning on doing with them? Vented box? Horn? OB?
Just remember the provisos attached -a general description of the unit in a raw state or in one cabinet, or one system, or one room, won't really tell you much & I wouldn't want to spend a lot of money based purely on that, or even a number of them. That said, with mega-price units like these from relatively small companies, there isn't a great deal of option, as for obvious reasons you're unlikely to ever be able to hear the things in advance.In a spirit of curiosity, what are you planning on doing with them? Vented box? Horn? OB?
I'm planing OB or TQWT load,
thanks Tinitus, however he talking about the right driver fertin model that I had mentioned, but don't talk about the exact supravox model,
of course he can give good informations on fertin since he is a fertin user, but he know about supravox 215-2000 exc? it go up to 20khz by graphics available on the site, another my question is : why the frquencies response of the fertin is so secret? hwever I don't have doubt regarding the quality of 20ex, but here I look for "details"
thanks Tinitus, however he talking about the right driver fertin model that I had mentioned, but don't talk about the exact supravox model,
of course he can give good informations on fertin since he is a fertin user, but he know about supravox 215-2000 exc? it go up to 20khz by graphics available on the site, another my question is : why the frquencies response of the fertin is so secret? hwever I don't have doubt regarding the quality of 20ex, but here I look for "details"
Tony,
If one really means "objective" then the published T/S params for the 215-2000 vs 20EX should get you going. AFAIU they are relatively accurate (others pls correct me if I'm wrong). While Supravox publishes the CSD, impluse response etc. you should rember that both (maybe especially Fertin ?) are small niched companys that do not have the resources to do hand-holding for a DIYer going through a life crisis before forking 1000 Euros for a driver. One either wants a 20EX or not, is that simple.
So, if one really knows how to interpret them, take a look at the Sd, Mms, Fs, Qts, Xmax, Ls, BL product etc. for the two and you would be able to figure out what fits and what not. The 20EX freq. response should be avail if you ask the right persons, but I'm not so sure how much that will help you.
I for one I know I'm a dummy and far away from being able to do that "objective" judgement based solely on published/avail data (i.e. without more details on specific setup and intended use). As such I strongly recommend following Scott's advice -- and others -- that _do_ have experience with those drivers in specific setups and their subjective impressions on those
If one really means "objective" then the published T/S params for the 215-2000 vs 20EX should get you going. AFAIU they are relatively accurate (others pls correct me if I'm wrong). While Supravox publishes the CSD, impluse response etc. you should rember that both (maybe especially Fertin ?) are small niched companys that do not have the resources to do hand-holding for a DIYer going through a life crisis before forking 1000 Euros for a driver. One either wants a 20EX or not, is that simple.
So, if one really knows how to interpret them, take a look at the Sd, Mms, Fs, Qts, Xmax, Ls, BL product etc. for the two and you would be able to figure out what fits and what not. The 20EX freq. response should be avail if you ask the right persons, but I'm not so sure how much that will help you.
I for one I know I'm a dummy and far away from being able to do that "objective" judgement based solely on published/avail data (i.e. without more details on specific setup and intended use). As such I strongly recommend following Scott's advice -- and others -- that _do_ have experience with those drivers in specific setups and their subjective impressions on those
Hi Floriano, my question regarding the fertin curve response is just a curiosity, but I think, we can take in consideration all T/S parameters, analyze it, compare, put it in some simul soft, talk about it, but if you can't ear your tchnical considerations, I think, remain in doubt, simply I looking for rumors on the net and like first on this frequently and important forum. We are talk about two most similar driver.
Hi TonyE!
I'm no expert who can explain in detail what/how/why! But what I do know, is that at 94 db sensitivity, even 15 W will make more noise than you would stand. There are issues maybe with bass heavy tracks, however I suspect every fullranger will have these problem.
Cheers and good luck!
I'm no expert who can explain in detail what/how/why! But what I do know, is that at 94 db sensitivity, even 15 W will make more noise than you would stand. There are issues maybe with bass heavy tracks, however I suspect every fullranger will have these problem.
Cheers and good luck!
hi,
You are considering to employ one of the best drivers in the world...
I think that fertin has no permanent magnet (need for the external power supply, also possibility to choose Qt...)
Supravox have the two versions Alnico magnet and one with external bias magnetisation...
One member said that he used supravox with external (not cheap) power supply, in the bipole plate only, and there is some significant heat behind the driver...
that leads to the notion that might be a problem to use drivers with not permanent magnet in the cabinet requireing stuffing material behind the driver unit because of the heat...
personaly I am for the alnico permanent magnet and supravox model...
Because it is open to fit in different cabinets constructions...
One is positive, booth drivers are the ultimate central unit...
also presence of bass is depending on type of music You consume...
note the angle of listening position, material and weight of membrane which defines the chaacter of sound rather than electric datas...
You are considering to employ one of the best drivers in the world...
I think that fertin has no permanent magnet (need for the external power supply, also possibility to choose Qt...)
Supravox have the two versions Alnico magnet and one with external bias magnetisation...
One member said that he used supravox with external (not cheap) power supply, in the bipole plate only, and there is some significant heat behind the driver...
that leads to the notion that might be a problem to use drivers with not permanent magnet in the cabinet requireing stuffing material behind the driver unit because of the heat...
personaly I am for the alnico permanent magnet and supravox model...
Because it is open to fit in different cabinets constructions...
One is positive, booth drivers are the ultimate central unit...
also presence of bass is depending on type of music You consume...
note the angle of listening position, material and weight of membrane which defines the chaacter of sound rather than electric datas...
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