Please recommend a 4 or 5" FR for Open baffle w/ active bass augmentaion - Page 2

JandG · 11th June 2007, 04:58 AM

Hey Goeff.
92 total ain't going to do it, I am are die hard thru & thru tube guy,,so..Well I bid on a pair Pioneer PIM-8L that are local driving distance to me. If I win them I will let you know how they do. I should have never went to the JE Labs site...lol....anyway. I am about to pull trigger, on the Hemptone 5" not bad @ 180.00 to the door.These little Calrads are doing way more than 92 at my seat & I ain't even crackin it..If I could ever find a match to my NOS Stephens Tru-Sonic FR 102, I would be the happiest man alive. best built vintage FR driver I have seen ever.Never seen one for sale since I bought it..someday though..15" monster.. I have to think the Jordan thing thru...am I paying for great midrange...or extenstion..I am just looking for THAT tone, as all guitar players do & I am one..& I sadly apply same priciples to hi-fi, Can't get the dang Alnico thing outa my head...most all alnico FR's I have tried,,, have had superiour midrange to non alnico,, then most were very misbehaved, except Coral anything..

peterbrorsson · 11th June 2007, 05:51 AM

Geoff, thanks for clarifying!

Cheers!

Zero One · 11th June 2007, 08:40 AM

Since this is a DIY forum perhaps you might be prepared to go a liitle beyond simply popping a std driver on some panels.

Over the past 18 months or so I have played around with various drivers in different sizes and come to the final conclusion that 4 to 5 inches on OBs is the go if you want to get something that really sounds like a live performance. These are augmented with super tweeters and subs in my set up.

In the end I have modified some very basic drivers, the mods total about 20 or so and the they are cut off at about 50Hz with a very steep active filter and the super tweets (piezos) come in at 10k or so, though the drivers punch out to 16k cleanly

Here are some pics of modded drivers, though I have gone a couple of stages beyond these now.
http://homepage.mac.com/braddles/PhotoAlbum5.html

The original drivers are these:
http://www.altronics.com.au/index.as...=item&id=C0626

You likely have an equivalent in the US but these are pretty cheap. They are PA drivers so they should and do work well on OBs

If your interested you can email me and I can provide instructions on how to mod them.

You need only a little power for listening in a room such as you describe, I run mine on 12V gainclones, so about 6 watts or so.

The sound on OBs is quite incredible, I have plenty of speakers here and nothing comes even within a mile of these. basically they sound like the musicians are in the room and vocals are something else again. The only failing is that they fall off at around 100hz pretty strongly so you need to have the woofer working pretty well by that stage, though they go as low as 60hz in modded form. Imaging is as you want, very good, though please consider that going OB softens this a bit due to the rear wave and its reflections, but I am happy for this trade-off and the imaging in OB should exceed that of larger drivers. Anyway OB probably is probably closer in imaging to a real live performance on a stage.

In the end it is so cheap to do this there is not much to loose.

I don't really like blowing my own trumpet so to speak but truthfully many people have come to my home to hear these and the comments have all being along the lines of "it just sounds so real"

One last point to bear in mind, most of the smaller high efficiency drivers are pretty revealing, so they work best in a system that has low noise floor levels and high but clean resolution, anything less may sound harsh.

el`Ol · 11th June 2007, 08:48 AM

If using a supertweeter is an option you might have a look at these:
http://www.altecpro.com/pdfs/CF404_SS.PDF
You find TSPs an frequency response at
http://www.spectrumaudio.de

JandG · 12th June 2007, 02:30 AM

PIM-8L pair on the way, I won them...So I'll give another 8" a shot..& now decision on the 4-5" .....I must admit the FT-5 Calrads are opening my eyes & ears to alot of things, my mid bass also seems cleaner that ever with only a 5" driver. clean & solid..

tinitus · 12th June 2007, 03:07 AM

How about this cheap Monacor

http://www.monacor.dk/produkter/hoej...-5/vnr/104690/

planet10 · 12th June 2007, 07:16 AM

Calrads were usually OEMed by Coral.

The CSS FR125s get a lot better when you treat with a surprisingly small amount of C37. I don't know if you would find them satisfying after the holey basket Corals or the B200s.

With an XO of 150 Hz, there aren't many drivers you can't use as mid-tweeters. Modified FE127e would be high on my list given the criterion. The little hemps (both flavours) were intended to be drop in replacements for the FE127

dave

planet10 · 12th June 2007, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by JandG
PIM-8L pair on the way, I won them...

Lovely drivers those...

dave

dmason · 12th June 2007, 02:31 PM

JandG

As far as I am concerned, the tubby tone flavour of the Hemp Tone stuff walks away with the midrange, not having heard the modified FE127. It is the midrange tone of the Tubby guitar drivers that has these guys going nuts six days a week. I find the 4.5" HempTones a far superior music maker to the 8.

Mouldingman · 9th July 2010, 06:54 AM

Hey JandG I have a couple of FR 102 Tru-Sonic speakers. One has the original cone and the diffracter in the center. The other has a replacement cone with a three rib edge surround, also has the metal cone diffracter with the spiral center blades. Bpth seem to have FAR of 45 Hz.
Are you still looking for a 15 inch monster to match your FR 102?

12th June 2007, 07:16 AM	#17
planet10 diyAudio Moderator Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III Blog Entries: 4	Calrads were usually OEMed by Coral. The CSS FR125s get a lot better when you treat with a surprisingly small amount of C37. I don't know if you would find them satisfying after the holey basket Corals or the B200s. With an XO of 150 Hz, there aren't many drivers you can't use as mid-tweeters. Modified FE127e would be high on my list given the criterion. The little hemps (both flavours) were intended to be drop in replacements for the FE127 dave __________________ community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi p10-hifi forum here at diyA

12th June 2007, 02:31 PM	#19
dmason diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Republik of Kalifonia	JandG As far as I am concerned, the tubby tone flavour of the Hemp Tone stuff walks away with the midrange, not having heard the modified FE127. It is the midrange tone of the Tubby guitar drivers that has these guys going nuts six days a week. I find the 4.5" HempTones a far superior music maker to the 8. __________________ "Pilau Buggah, Big Islan Mo Betta!!"

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11th June 2007, 04:58 AM	#11
JandG diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Washington State	Hey Goeff. 92 total ain't going to do it, I am are die hard thru & thru tube guy,,so..Well I bid on a pair Pioneer PIM-8L that are local driving distance to me. If I win them I will let you know how they do. I should have never went to the JE Labs site...lol....anyway. I am about to pull trigger, on the Hemptone 5" not bad @ 180.00 to the door.These little Calrads are doing way more than 92 at my seat & I ain't even crackin it..If I could ever find a match to my NOS Stephens Tru-Sonic FR 102, I would be the happiest man alive. best built vintage FR driver I have seen ever.Never seen one for sale since I bought it..someday though..15" monster.. I have to think the Jordan thing thru...am I paying for great midrange...or extenstion..I am just looking for THAT tone, as all guitar players do & I am one..& I sadly apply same priciples to hi-fi, Can't get the dang Alnico thing outa my head...most all alnico FR's I have tried,,, have had superiour midrange to non alnico,, then most were very misbehaved, except Coral anything..

11th June 2007, 05:51 AM	#12
peterbrorsson diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Cz Rep.	Geoff, thanks for clarifying! Cheers!

11th June 2007, 08:40 AM	#13
Zero One diyAudio Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Goulburn NSW	Since this is a DIY forum perhaps you might be prepared to go a liitle beyond simply popping a std driver on some panels. Over the past 18 months or so I have played around with various drivers in different sizes and come to the final conclusion that 4 to 5 inches on OBs is the go if you want to get something that really sounds like a live performance. These are augmented with super tweeters and subs in my set up. In the end I have modified some very basic drivers, the mods total about 20 or so and the they are cut off at about 50Hz with a very steep active filter and the super tweets (piezos) come in at 10k or so, though the drivers punch out to 16k cleanly Here are some pics of modded drivers, though I have gone a couple of stages beyond these now. http://homepage.mac.com/braddles/PhotoAlbum5.html The original drivers are these: http://www.altronics.com.au/index.as...=item&id=C0626 You likely have an equivalent in the US but these are pretty cheap. They are PA drivers so they should and do work well on OBs If your interested you can email me and I can provide instructions on how to mod them. You need only a little power for listening in a room such as you describe, I run mine on 12V gainclones, so about 6 watts or so. The sound on OBs is quite incredible, I have plenty of speakers here and nothing comes even within a mile of these. basically they sound like the musicians are in the room and vocals are something else again. The only failing is that they fall off at around 100hz pretty strongly so you need to have the woofer working pretty well by that stage, though they go as low as 60hz in modded form. Imaging is as you want, very good, though please consider that going OB softens this a bit due to the rear wave and its reflections, but I am happy for this trade-off and the imaging in OB should exceed that of larger drivers. Anyway OB probably is probably closer in imaging to a real live performance on a stage. In the end it is so cheap to do this there is not much to loose. I don't really like blowing my own trumpet so to speak but truthfully many people have come to my home to hear these and the comments have all being along the lines of "it just sounds so real" One last point to bear in mind, most of the smaller high efficiency drivers are pretty revealing, so they work best in a system that has low noise floor levels and high but clean resolution, anything less may sound harsh.

11th June 2007, 08:48 AM	#14
el`Ol diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Bavarian Forest	If using a supertweeter is an option you might have a look at these: http://www.altecpro.com/pdfs/CF404_SS.PDF You find TSPs an frequency response at http://www.spectrumaudio.de

12th June 2007, 02:30 AM	#15
JandG diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Washington State	PIM-8L pair on the way, I won them...So I'll give another 8" a shot..& now decision on the 4-5" .....I must admit the FT-5 Calrads are opening my eyes & ears to alot of things, my mid bass also seems cleaner that ever with only a 5" driver. clean & solid..

9th July 2010, 06:54 AM	#20
Mouldingman diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: San Diego	Hey JandG I have a couple of FR 102 Tru-Sonic speakers. One has the original cone and the diffracter in the center. The other has a replacement cone with a three rib edge surround, also has the metal cone diffracter with the spiral center blades. Bpth seem to have FAR of 45 Hz. Are you still looking for a 15 inch monster to match your FR 102?

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