On a whim, I quickgrip clamped a pair of 9x14" baffles w/ some old Calrad Fullrangers in then to the sides of my main baffles @ ear level. Active Bass drivers still in play..set @ 4th 150hz,& 150hz 1st line level hi-pass amp feeding the little Calrad's. Thinking it would sound like sh......I was amazed. They actually did more than well, so I am going to take this road for a while..I am looking @ the 5" FR Hemp from A Brown Soun....I run 22w PP tube amp for the fullrangers,, so high eff is not real important, plus I listen @ less than 10' away. Any suggestion on 4 or 5" that need no filters & image like crazy.. I have had Coral 103A, which I still wish I had. I never tried them in OB.bummer, bummer...They imaged like no tommorrow
Hi
I wonder what the Zigmahornets/Merill DCA4
drivers would be like in OB?
Maybe talk to the designer and the price
is not high. OK they were designed for a
tuned pipe but still. Let me know how you get on.
Regards
Anthony PT
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/zigmahornet/zigmahornet.html
amerrill@web-ster.com .
I wonder what the Zigmahornets/Merill DCA4
drivers would be like in OB?
Maybe talk to the designer and the price
is not high. OK they were designed for a
tuned pipe but still. Let me know how you get on.
Regards
Anthony PT
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/zigmahornet/zigmahornet.html
amerrill@web-ster.com .
Hi Jo,
What about these?
http://www.visaton.com/en/chassis_zubehoer/breitband/fr13_8.html
There's also this one, top end might be a bit peaky for you.
http://www.visaton.com/en/chassis_zubehoer/breitband/bg13p_8.html
Are you planning to run these along side the B200s, or replace the Calrads in the bedroom?
Geoff.
What about these?
http://www.visaton.com/en/chassis_zubehoer/breitband/fr13_8.html
There's also this one, top end might be a bit peaky for you.
http://www.visaton.com/en/chassis_zubehoer/breitband/bg13p_8.html
Are you planning to run these along side the B200s, or replace the Calrads in the bedroom?
Geoff.
Hi Geoff,
The B200's have been sold. The decideing factor was that the Calrads's consistantly beat the B200's in the midrange tone as I like to hear it. Subjective personal taste. So I am off to roll some smaller drivers because of my almost near field listening position. I will roll thru them till I find a fairly behaved nice tone pair, that @ most only need line level correction & or small amount of mechanical.Those dang 12" Calrads are special to me for sure..obviousely not even close to a great top end, but what they do in mid land is rare..
The B200's have been sold. The decideing factor was that the Calrads's consistantly beat the B200's in the midrange tone as I like to hear it. Subjective personal taste. So I am off to roll some smaller drivers because of my almost near field listening position. I will roll thru them till I find a fairly behaved nice tone pair, that @ most only need line level correction & or small amount of mechanical.Those dang 12" Calrads are special to me for sure..obviousely not even close to a great top end, but what they do in mid land is rare..
Here are the oustanding sound little FT-5 Calrad's, I wish I had another pair, I bought them NOS. I had no idea they would sound so good in OB, they are very eff. much more than the Coral 103A's I have had which are are favorite of mine.The Calrads match the 103A & are definately more eff..My plates are set @ 150hz & I don't seem to hear a obviouse hole..? 150-250hz..?No correction & not looking for that. No piercing. & wonderfull tone, that I have not heard since I ran the Coral 103A's. Very similar mids to my other 12" Calrad's. Makes me wonder about the Alnico thing again..I have tried most all of the very best green cones & such, missbehaved as the are...the mids on them are of the best IMO.. just peaky peacing torcher other than that. It will be fun trying to beat the FT-5's. I have $ ready for a Jordan purchase & thinking of the Hemptone 4.5..also. I must think further on this, these Calrad FT-5's are good..Now I don't want to pull em.!!!!!!!!!I will though just to see if I can beat em,, as usual..I won't sell em though. If anyone know where I can get some of these I would appeciate knowing where, so I can mod them, I won't touch the single pair I have. I paid $18.00 for them I think.
CSS WR125. Has plenty of excursion (relatively). If you're willing to go a touch larger, the FE167E works spectacularly with just an Eminance Beta 15 on the bottom end if you design the baffle right. 40Hz, easy. I was listening to my friend Nick's earlier today from about 8ft out. On the end of his 300b amp, they literally vanished. All that remained was a huge semi-circle of sound with pin-point imaging.
Very cool, I acyually had fe167e's in a ported monitor w/ Dave's plugs, very nice indeed, then went OB & sold them, didn't think to try the 167 in OB,,damn...actually the 167e was what got me going on fullrange..once I heard that it's all she wrote..Then after my 1st OB, I could'nt not give up the openess & rightness of them. No way. &.my little 10" vifa's would surprise you in the bass department,, eq'ed somewhat & perceptive fast & clean as a mofo. Disappearing OB's are what I have here & spot on imaging all day long. I don't know about a 85db driver though..?CSS is 85db, I run 22w of 300B for the fullranger. Might be enough..I could do the math..but I would really need to tryit. Have you ran the CSS against the Jordan,,.? I know of one knowlegeable OB freak that prefers the TangBang 4" bamboo driver to both Jordan JX92S & FX120 Fostex & owns both. Remember I listen @ just a little over 9'.If that matters much on the CSS wr125. The 125 is cheap enought o try for sure. But if I get the Jordans that is a majore chunk of what I have to spend.
"Could you explain why to avoid ribbed cones?"
Well Peter, I asked for that. I should have clarified the statement.
A deep straight sided cone excels down low, a ribbed cone will extend the frequency response due to the decoupling effect of the ribs.
A curvilinear cone is best for mids and top end. It provides decoupling due to the flare, but it is gradual, rather than defined steps as in a ribbed cone.
It's apparent when you start tweaking. I've got some 6" that go to 16K or so, no whizzer to cause a dip / phase issues common to dual cone drivers. I am trying to do the same on some 10" ribbed cones. It doesn't look like I going to get there, but haven't given up.
Scott, you will tease your ears to OB's. DVD soundtracks will do some strange things, eg apparent sound source at right angles to the centre line.
Joe, the CSS's should do about 92db at your seat. IMO, not much headroom. Looking at it another way, you'll need about ten times the power used with B200's. Ouch.
Geoff.
Geoff.
Well Peter, I asked for that. I should have clarified the statement.
A deep straight sided cone excels down low, a ribbed cone will extend the frequency response due to the decoupling effect of the ribs.
A curvilinear cone is best for mids and top end. It provides decoupling due to the flare, but it is gradual, rather than defined steps as in a ribbed cone.
It's apparent when you start tweaking. I've got some 6" that go to 16K or so, no whizzer to cause a dip / phase issues common to dual cone drivers. I am trying to do the same on some 10" ribbed cones. It doesn't look like I going to get there, but haven't given up.
Scott, you will tease your ears to OB's. DVD soundtracks will do some strange things, eg apparent sound source at right angles to the centre line.
Joe, the CSS's should do about 92db at your seat. IMO, not much headroom. Looking at it another way, you'll need about ten times the power used with B200's. Ouch.
Geoff.
Geoff.
Hey Goeff.
92 total ain't going to do it, I am are die hard thru & thru tube guy,,so..Well I bid on a pair Pioneer PIM-8L that are local driving distance to me. If I win them I will let you know how they do. I should have never went to the JE Labs site...lol....anyway. I am about to pull trigger, on the Hemptone 5" not bad @ 180.00 to the door.These little Calrads are doing way more than 92 at my seat & I ain't even crackin it..If I could ever find a match to my NOS Stephens Tru-Sonic FR 102, I would be the happiest man alive. best built vintage FR driver I have seen ever.Never seen one for sale since I bought it..someday though..15" monster.. I have to think the Jordan thing thru...am I paying for great midrange...or extenstion..I am just looking for THAT tone, as all guitar players do & I am one..& I sadly apply same priciples to hi-fi, Can't get the dang Alnico thing outa my head...most all alnico FR's I have tried,,, have had superiour midrange to non alnico,, then most were very misbehaved, except Coral anything..
92 total ain't going to do it, I am are die hard thru & thru tube guy,,so..Well I bid on a pair Pioneer PIM-8L that are local driving distance to me. If I win them I will let you know how they do. I should have never went to the JE Labs site...lol....anyway. I am about to pull trigger, on the Hemptone 5" not bad @ 180.00 to the door.These little Calrads are doing way more than 92 at my seat & I ain't even crackin it..If I could ever find a match to my NOS Stephens Tru-Sonic FR 102, I would be the happiest man alive. best built vintage FR driver I have seen ever.Never seen one for sale since I bought it..someday though..15" monster.. I have to think the Jordan thing thru...am I paying for great midrange...or extenstion..I am just looking for THAT tone, as all guitar players do & I am one..& I sadly apply same priciples to hi-fi, Can't get the dang Alnico thing outa my head...most all alnico FR's I have tried,,, have had superiour midrange to non alnico,, then most were very misbehaved, except Coral anything..
Since this is a DIY forum perhaps you might be prepared to go a liitle beyond simply popping a std driver on some panels.
Over the past 18 months or so I have played around with various drivers in different sizes and come to the final conclusion that 4 to 5 inches on OBs is the go if you want to get something that really sounds like a live performance. These are augmented with super tweeters and subs in my set up.
In the end I have modified some very basic drivers, the mods total about 20 or so and the they are cut off at about 50Hz with a very steep active filter and the super tweets (piezos) come in at 10k or so, though the drivers punch out to 16k cleanly
Here are some pics of modded drivers, though I have gone a couple of stages beyond these now.
http://homepage.mac.com/braddles/PhotoAlbum5.html
The original drivers are these:
http://www.altronics.com.au/index.asp?area=item&id=C0626
You likely have an equivalent in the US but these are pretty cheap. They are PA drivers so they should and do work well on OBs
If your interested you can email me and I can provide instructions on how to mod them.
You need only a little power for listening in a room such as you describe, I run mine on 12V gainclones, so about 6 watts or so.
The sound on OBs is quite incredible, I have plenty of speakers here and nothing comes even within a mile of these. basically they sound like the musicians are in the room and vocals are something else again. The only failing is that they fall off at around 100hz pretty strongly so you need to have the woofer working pretty well by that stage, though they go as low as 60hz in modded form. Imaging is as you want, very good, though please consider that going OB softens this a bit due to the rear wave and its reflections, but I am happy for this trade-off and the imaging in OB should exceed that of larger drivers. Anyway OB probably is probably closer in imaging to a real live performance on a stage.
In the end it is so cheap to do this there is not much to loose.
I don't really like blowing my own trumpet so to speak but truthfully many people have come to my home to hear these and the comments have all being along the lines of "it just sounds so real"
One last point to bear in mind, most of the smaller high efficiency drivers are pretty revealing, so they work best in a system that has low noise floor levels and high but clean resolution, anything less may sound harsh.
Over the past 18 months or so I have played around with various drivers in different sizes and come to the final conclusion that 4 to 5 inches on OBs is the go if you want to get something that really sounds like a live performance. These are augmented with super tweeters and subs in my set up.
In the end I have modified some very basic drivers, the mods total about 20 or so and the they are cut off at about 50Hz with a very steep active filter and the super tweets (piezos) come in at 10k or so, though the drivers punch out to 16k cleanly
Here are some pics of modded drivers, though I have gone a couple of stages beyond these now.
http://homepage.mac.com/braddles/PhotoAlbum5.html
The original drivers are these:
http://www.altronics.com.au/index.asp?area=item&id=C0626
You likely have an equivalent in the US but these are pretty cheap. They are PA drivers so they should and do work well on OBs
If your interested you can email me and I can provide instructions on how to mod them.
You need only a little power for listening in a room such as you describe, I run mine on 12V gainclones, so about 6 watts or so.
The sound on OBs is quite incredible, I have plenty of speakers here and nothing comes even within a mile of these. basically they sound like the musicians are in the room and vocals are something else again. The only failing is that they fall off at around 100hz pretty strongly so you need to have the woofer working pretty well by that stage, though they go as low as 60hz in modded form. Imaging is as you want, very good, though please consider that going OB softens this a bit due to the rear wave and its reflections, but I am happy for this trade-off and the imaging in OB should exceed that of larger drivers. Anyway OB probably is probably closer in imaging to a real live performance on a stage.
In the end it is so cheap to do this there is not much to loose.
I don't really like blowing my own trumpet so to speak but truthfully many people have come to my home to hear these and the comments have all being along the lines of "it just sounds so real"
One last point to bear in mind, most of the smaller high efficiency drivers are pretty revealing, so they work best in a system that has low noise floor levels and high but clean resolution, anything less may sound harsh.
If using a supertweeter is an option you might have a look at these:
http://www.altecpro.com/pdfs/CF404_SS.PDF
You find TSPs an frequency response at
http://www.spectrumaudio.de
http://www.altecpro.com/pdfs/CF404_SS.PDF
You find TSPs an frequency response at
http://www.spectrumaudio.de
Attachments
Calrads were usually OEMed by Coral.
The CSS FR125s get a lot better when you treat with a surprisingly small amount of C37. I don't know if you would find them satisfying after the holey basket Corals or the B200s.
With an XO of 150 Hz, there aren't many drivers you can't use as mid-tweeters. Modified FE127e would be high on my list given the criterion. The little hemps (both flavours) were intended to be drop in replacements for the FE127
dave
The CSS FR125s get a lot better when you treat with a surprisingly small amount of C37. I don't know if you would find them satisfying after the holey basket Corals or the B200s.
With an XO of 150 Hz, there aren't many drivers you can't use as mid-tweeters. Modified FE127e would be high on my list given the criterion. The little hemps (both flavours) were intended to be drop in replacements for the FE127
dave
JandG
As far as I am concerned, the tubby tone flavour of the Hemp Tone stuff walks away with the midrange, not having heard the modified FE127. It is the midrange tone of the Tubby guitar drivers that has these guys going nuts six days a week. I find the 4.5" HempTones a far superior music maker to the 8.
As far as I am concerned, the tubby tone flavour of the Hemp Tone stuff walks away with the midrange, not having heard the modified FE127. It is the midrange tone of the Tubby guitar drivers that has these guys going nuts six days a week. I find the 4.5" HempTones a far superior music maker to the 8.
Hey JandG I have a couple of FR 102 Tru-Sonic speakers. One has the original cone and the diffracter in the center. The other has a replacement cone with a three rib edge surround, also has the metal cone diffracter with the spiral center blades. Bpth seem to have FAR of 45 Hz.
Are you still looking for a 15 inch monster to match your FR 102?
Are you still looking for a 15 inch monster to match your FR 102?
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