Over the past school year I have built a couple of pairs of speakers which I think begin to show what I have learned about wood working. Over the past couple years of building loudspeakers I have decided that MDF and painting is not my cup of tea. My latest cabinets have been Baltic birch, heavily braced, and look much better than past projects. I'm ready to build something to show my skills. I have a pair of FE127s that were in a pair of Frugel-Horns and am ready to try something else, not corner loaded. I prefer the overpower presence of larger enclosures.
I would like some suggestions.
My plan thus far:
I do not see the plys of the side panels along with the top and bottom panels. Do accomplish this I was thinking of adding trim, the kind often used on bookshelves. This would hide the plys and they would be cut in a rather aesthetically pleasing way.
I also would like to have a suprabaffle, made out of solid wood, preferably somewhat exotic.
I would like to make these enclosures be 2-tone. The Baltic birch would be its natural color, likely only a poly on top. The trim covering the plys would be a cherry, and the suprabaffle (perhaps tiger wood) would be its natural color as well, the color similar to the birch.
The problem is, how do I add a suprabaffle and trim... if I add trim, the driver must not only be mounted on the suprabaffle (which sits on the trim), but the suprabaffle would have to sit on a spacer as well.
Should I shorted the width of the sides, top, and bottom panels to make room for the trim? What other ways can I do this?
Thanks,
Josh
PS. I looked up pictures of tiger wood, I believe I was mistaken... the pictures did not look like what I wanted. So I would like wood suggestions as well.
I would like some suggestions.
My plan thus far:
I do not see the plys of the side panels along with the top and bottom panels. Do accomplish this I was thinking of adding trim, the kind often used on bookshelves. This would hide the plys and they would be cut in a rather aesthetically pleasing way.
I also would like to have a suprabaffle, made out of solid wood, preferably somewhat exotic.
I would like to make these enclosures be 2-tone. The Baltic birch would be its natural color, likely only a poly on top. The trim covering the plys would be a cherry, and the suprabaffle (perhaps tiger wood) would be its natural color as well, the color similar to the birch.
The problem is, how do I add a suprabaffle and trim... if I add trim, the driver must not only be mounted on the suprabaffle (which sits on the trim), but the suprabaffle would have to sit on a spacer as well.
Should I shorted the width of the sides, top, and bottom panels to make room for the trim? What other ways can I do this?
Thanks,
Josh
PS. I looked up pictures of tiger wood, I believe I was mistaken... the pictures did not look like what I wanted. So I would like wood suggestions as well.
Depending on how much trim you want showing, you can edge the ply with trim across the full thickness or you can rabbet one edge down to as little as 1/16" inch and only have to trim that amount by chamfering the edge and gluing trim on.
Either method will work because speakers are not banged around constantly like doors or stairs, etc., but both methods are not without issues:
With using full-thickness trim and then butting it to another piece, you have to have absolutely flat and square edges because the glue seams are exposed (and they are not very strong either!). Then, if you want to shape the corners by any amount, you can't use biscuits or dowels or nails to line everything up, which makes glue up more difficult.
With rabbets, you have to cut the rabbet either with a saw or router bit, so it's more work. The wood needs to be flat or the rabbet won't be uniform, and the cuts have to be straight and square. And then glue up is also tricky because you are now dealing with two glue surfaces instead of one on each corner.
Doug
Either method will work because speakers are not banged around constantly like doors or stairs, etc., but both methods are not without issues:
With using full-thickness trim and then butting it to another piece, you have to have absolutely flat and square edges because the glue seams are exposed (and they are not very strong either!). Then, if you want to shape the corners by any amount, you can't use biscuits or dowels or nails to line everything up, which makes glue up more difficult.
With rabbets, you have to cut the rabbet either with a saw or router bit, so it's more work. The wood needs to be flat or the rabbet won't be uniform, and the cuts have to be straight and square. And then glue up is also tricky because you are now dealing with two glue surfaces instead of one on each corner.
Doug
Well, as I'm clearly much lazier than Doug, I'd suggest pre-glued (iron-on) veneer edge tape for the exposed edges. It's pretty easy to work with, and available in a variety of species. (in fact, not from this supplier, but even in a "simulated Apple ply exposed ply" edge for use on MDF core veneered panels. 
)
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=32717&cat=1,250,43217
Of course if you want the finished edges flush with the adjoining panels, you'd need to allow for the thickness of the tape. The other down sides are that you'll still have a small seam and glue line showing that doesn't necessarily accept stains very well - but with a clear coat /natural finish is certainly less offensive.
)http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=32717&cat=1,250,43217
Of course if you want the finished edges flush with the adjoining panels, you'd need to allow for the thickness of the tape. The other down sides are that you'll still have a small seam and glue line showing that doesn't necessarily accept stains very well - but with a clear coat /natural finish is certainly less offensive.
Taperwood,
Never thought of rabbeting... I could use 3/4" trim, rabbet the inner 3/4" of it after so that it will fit flush around edges, leaving the actual thickness of the trim on top of the cabinet be much less than 3/4".
I like this idea. I was going let the enclosure sit on the trim, to angle it, but I can easily use spikes. I think I need to leave atleast 1/4" of trim after rabbeting to get a strong hold.
Any more suggestions?
Any wood suggestions?
Thanks,
Josh
Never thought of rabbeting... I could use 3/4" trim, rabbet the inner 3/4" of it after so that it will fit flush around edges, leaving the actual thickness of the trim on top of the cabinet be much less than 3/4".
I like this idea. I was going let the enclosure sit on the trim, to angle it, but I can easily use spikes. I think I need to leave atleast 1/4" of trim after rabbeting to get a strong hold.
Any more suggestions?
Any wood suggestions?
Thanks,
Josh
edjosh23 said:
First of all thanks for the implied compliment. As I take it, your inquiries are now really entering the realm of aesthetics and personal taste - and it doesn't take much review of DIY postings to reveal how wide a range that encompasses.
As a matter of self-preservation, I've attempted to evolve a sleek and understated style. There may sometimes be 3 or 4 pairs of speakers in rotation in the family areas of the house, and it's best to have something that doesn't cause my wife to twitch every time she passes by. She's lived with some rather obtrusive or simply ungainly systems in the past (QUAD ESL57, Acoustats, Dahlquist DQ10, Tangent RS8, I could go on) and would prefer if the speaker was heard but not seen. It's apparently one of the few things I try to see from her point of view these days, and she appreciates the conscious effort.
Dave has a much more tolerant situation, and he tends to accumulate the unfinished boxes.
If the speaker cabinets are large enough that they can't help but dominate a space that is not a dedicated listening "cave", then you could be pointing your direction in the wrong direction, but it might not hurt to try and blend with the style and details of any existing large furniture pieces - they'll look like they "belong".
chrisb said:
Josh, i believe, has not yet reached 20 yet so his years of needing to take SAF into account are hopefully still a ways off (a pair of BIG yet elegant speakers could also be seen as a tool to weed out the less tolerant potential mates
)When Josh 1st asked this question the attached speakers of Chris' were the 1st things that popped into mind.
dave
planet10 said:
Josh, i believe, has not yet reached 20 yet so his years of needing to take SAF into account are hopefully still a ways off (a pair of BIG yet elegant speakers could also be seen as a tool to weed out the less tolerant potential mates
Too narrowly defined IMO. I initially used a pair of flat black primered DIY Altec A7-500s, but the three beat up Battleship Gray A4 theater bass-horns/805 multi-cells was the 'Hot Ticket' to SAF 'compliance'. Nothing says 'accept me, accept my audio addiction' like a few hundred cubic feet of speakers.
"you knew I was a snake when you took me in"
My perversions (audio and otherwise) pre-existed meeting my wife of 35 years, in fact we met while I was providing music for a sister's "parents are away for the weekend party" (1971) . In 3 1/2 decades, she has never denied entrance to even the most obtrusive or ugly audio gear I could personally tolerate - there are far more powerful ways to make her opinions known.
My tastes in music and the scale of required audio reproduction for the home have made more than a few turns since then, and while I've slept on the couch my fair share, I've never had to train a new spouse.
Hmmm, I know this is off topic so I am happy to discuss elsewhere...
Are the drivers in those gorgeous speakers what I think they are - PHY-HP H21? I would like to find a design that does these drivers justice yet can be used close(ish) to the front wall. Care to share? Er, on second thoughts perhaps not - it could leave me penniless
Actually, do please share.Regards
Raymond
rcdaniel said:
Hmmm, I know this is off topic so I am happy to discuss elsewhere...
Are the drivers in those gorgeous speakers what I think they are - PHY-HP H21? I would like to find a design that does these drivers justice yet can be used close(ish) to the front wall. Care to share? Er, on second thoughts perhaps not - it could leave me penniless
Regards
Raymond
Raymond - I'm not exactly sure of the PHY model numbers, but it was the 8" full range . The enclosure was built to the exact factory recommended dimensions, and frankly could perhaps have been optimized.
You'll be shocked to hear that upon not being amazed by the performance the dealer involved has since delegated these to surplus storage area. They'd rather sell Audio Note Model E, with the appropriate electronics, of course. I never got a chance to hear them properly set up.
I am shocked - I wonder if he would like to sell them at surplus prices?
They are very expensive (for me) drivers to be sitting unused, not bringing joy to someone. Those cabs are pretty different to what most people tend to use tho... So GM, a BIB you say. I have been following that thread, on and off, for a long while and it never occurred to me. Roll in a half decent tweeter and all should be pretty nice. I am a little concerned that the bass may overpower the room these would end up living in.
Aw shucks, I may have to put the question to Scott on the BIB thread. I am scaring the cr*p out of myself thinking this is a practical possibility.
Thanx guys.
re PHY
It's interesting to note that a visit to the manufacturer's website
shows no sign of the TQWP enclosure design.
From my very brief listen, and the dealer's subsequent comments (albeit not without commercial bias), this is no great loss - other than the effort and materials invested in the cabinets.
What's perplexing though, is the inclusion of the "mini" designs for the 8" and 12" drivers.
http://www.phy-hp.com/English/Communication_E/Communication_E.html
FWIW, a set of the large, folding OBs were fabricated for the 12" coax at the same time as the TQWP. (well, not exactly - in a compromise for mobility in the demo rooms, they were not sand filled)
In the right environs (i.e. not the main demo area with 10 pairs of static display speakers located on 2 shelves 3-4 feet behind the panels, or in a 6'6" clearance basement room with painted concrete floor and hardboard ceiling) , they could be quite magical.
However, the cost of admission for that ride in terms of dollars* and physical space is not for the faint of heart or shallow of wallet.
*in the case of the 12" coax, the drivers alone were approx half the price of my current pick-up truck.
It's interesting to note that a visit to the manufacturer's website
shows no sign of the TQWP enclosure design.
From my very brief listen, and the dealer's subsequent comments (albeit not without commercial bias), this is no great loss - other than the effort and materials invested in the cabinets.
What's perplexing though, is the inclusion of the "mini" designs for the 8" and 12" drivers.
http://www.phy-hp.com/English/Communication_E/Communication_E.html
FWIW, a set of the large, folding OBs were fabricated for the 12" coax at the same time as the TQWP. (well, not exactly - in a compromise for mobility in the demo rooms, they were not sand filled)
In the right environs (i.e. not the main demo area with 10 pairs of static display speakers located on 2 shelves 3-4 feet behind the panels, or in a 6'6" clearance basement room with painted concrete floor and hardboard ceiling) , they could be quite magical.
However, the cost of admission for that ride in terms of dollars* and physical space is not for the faint of heart or shallow of wallet.
*in the case of the 12" coax, the drivers alone were approx half the price of my current pick-up truck.
I knew it would be big, but didn't 'run the numbers' to see how big.........
I just double checked it -yep, using the BIB volume formula & the factory specs., then Vb =20*3.4255*0.517 or 35.419ft^3. Unless I've done something daft here? Bit of a monster, but I bet it'd sound good.
They'd do well enough in something a bit smaller though I reckon: here's one: 150in long, Zdriver 32.5in, Sl=375in^2 for a Vb of 16.27ft^3 Not too bad, and excursion looks OK -I can't find Xmax data, but if it's good for OB use, this should be a doddle as it doesn't pass 1mm until ~25Hz for 1w input. Compared to the full-size one, the latter reduces the ripple, and has more LF gain, but there isn't a great deal in it, in the sims at least. Law of diminishing returns appears to have kicked in for this driver anyway. Interesting.
They'd do well enough in something a bit smaller though I reckon: here's one: 150in long, Zdriver 32.5in, Sl=375in^2 for a Vb of 16.27ft^3 Not too bad, and excursion looks OK -I can't find Xmax data, but if it's good for OB use, this should be a doddle as it doesn't pass 1mm until ~25Hz for 1w input. Compared to the full-size one, the latter reduces the ripple, and has more LF gain, but there isn't a great deal in it, in the sims at least. Law of diminishing returns appears to have kicked in for this driver anyway. Interesting.
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