I'm willing to bet that the dust cap on the JX-92S is a real handicap to its potential performance. So has anyone tried to remove a metal dust cap on the Jordan drivers?
I'm a little more reluctant than willing - but curiosity is yanking my chain. Aside from the possibility of irreparably damaging the drivers, I would think the visual impact would much like Tammy Faye Baker.
I get the willy's just think about it. I'd hate to make these bad.
I'm a little more reluctant than willing - but curiosity is yanking my chain. Aside from the possibility of irreparably damaging the drivers, I would think the visual impact would much like Tammy Faye Baker.
I get the willy's just think about it. I'd hate to make these bad.An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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I would probably go with the ribbon tweeter instead.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=85148
I would probably go with the ribbon tweeter instead.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=85148
woody said:
From Wikipedia: "In practice, the dust cap will always add its something to the overall response of a driver since it is also a part of the moving system of a speaker".
The phase plug is used to fill the nasty empty hole,left from removing the dust cap.It doesn't add to the sound.
I could be wrong also
I had two pairs of Visaton B200 drivers. I sent one pair of to Dave at Planet 10 to have the dust caps removed and phase plugs designed to fit inside the void. The difference was more than subtle! Since that time many others have modified their B200's and have concurred with the report I posted last year on Audio Circle in the "Gravity Well Of A Darkstar" thread.
Phase plugs are nothing new. If you go to Planet 10's website you can read about all the happy people who rediscovered what their Fostex drivers were really capable of.
Based on my experience with the B200's, I would think the plugs would make even a bigger difference in place of an aluminum dust cap.
Phase plugs are nothing new. If you go to Planet 10's website you can read about all the happy people who rediscovered what their Fostex drivers were really capable of.
Based on my experience with the B200's, I would think the plugs would make even a bigger difference in place of an aluminum dust cap.
I seriously doubt that.
Ted Jordan has been fiddling with his fullrange drivers for the last 25 years or so, and they always had a dust cap. I am almost willing to bet that he tried all possible configurations but went with a dustcap to achieve a flat frequency response. With a phase plug you'll likely loose some high frequency extension, with a whizzer cone you'll have break up modes all over the place.
Stixx said:
I totally agree. I'm just recently going to try little tweaks and test some concepts. It's only the 10K and above that needs to be smoothed out, which I think does not require much because those are not cone breakup modes, just due to some rediating pattern. the frequency re3sponse and spectral decay is already top notch. You will not easily find drivers as good as these.
I'm more interested in the way something sounds than the way it measures. They are good little drivers but there is better and for less.
Whether or not Ted has ever experimented with phase plugs in his designs remains to be seen. I have yet to hear of one instance where somebody who has modified a given driver as such and didn’t hear a marked improvement. I see no reason why Ted’s drivers should be the exception to the rule. Maybe they are and maybe they ain’t, but I’m not assuming anything.
If as I suspect the JX-92S can be improved with a phase plug, the bandwagon will commence.
But first I need to get my hands on a dead driver to practice removing the metal dust cap before I put mine under the knife.
Whether or not Ted has ever experimented with phase plugs in his designs remains to be seen. I have yet to hear of one instance where somebody who has modified a given driver as such and didn’t hear a marked improvement. I see no reason why Ted’s drivers should be the exception to the rule. Maybe they are and maybe they ain’t, but I’m not assuming anything.
If as I suspect the JX-92S can be improved with a phase plug, the bandwagon will commence.
But first I need to get my hands on a dead driver to practice removing the metal dust cap before I put mine under the knife.
JohnnyBoy said:I'm more interested in the way something sounds than the way it measures. They are good little drivers but there is better and for less.
Whether or not Ted has ever experimented with phase plugs in his designs remains to be seen. I have yet to hear of one instance where somebody who has modified a given driver as such and didn’t hear a marked improvement. I see no reason why Ted’s drivers should be the exception to the rule. Maybe they are and maybe they ain’t, but I’m not assuming anything.
If as I suspect the JX-92S can be improved with a phase plug, the bandwagon will commence.
Well, in term of accuracy, there is a relashionship between the measured data and the sound. Nobody knows all the relationships, but some know more than others. Just talking about how they sound really is too subjective to personal taste, and does not help in dealing with technical issues if this is what this thread is about.
I now have a pair of JX53 Mk1 that actually has a phase plug. Collin has commented on these in one thread. I'm sure you can find it. I have not come across any driver with a phase plug that sounded or measured well.
The cones of Jordan drivers are much softer than most of the current metal drivers. The only way that might be possible to reliably remove the caps is to do so by chemical means. If epoxy is used, then your are possibly out of luck.
I would be glad to post any results of my tweaks on the JX92S if you would like to see it.
Modifying the enclosure for better baffle diffraction characteristics will actually clean up the sound significantly.
audiosteve,
My personal favorite, for $135 each and readily available here in America, once one sets aside their audio prejudices and gets past the FR plot, the Visaton B200 properly implemented in OB is in an entirely different league than the JX-92S. It has the speed and definition of an electrostat, with high sensitivity, dynamics and incredible tone! Like the inexpensive Tripath amps, the B200 is a relatively inexpensive overachiever. By comparison the JX-92S is nothing special.
And for those obsessed with technical measurements I submit the following as posted by another member in verbatim.
“the speaker has a frequency line, but dose people's Ear has a Listening line? because Ear has different Sensitivity with different sounds, so i think Ear must has a listening line and the line is not Straight. it's a curve,the more Complex thing is different people has different curve,and the curve will changed with people's age.so when the speaker's frequency line can fit people's listening line, people will feel the sound very nice,if can not fit,even the frequency line is so good,people will not feel good…”
My personal favorite, for $135 each and readily available here in America, once one sets aside their audio prejudices and gets past the FR plot, the Visaton B200 properly implemented in OB is in an entirely different league than the JX-92S. It has the speed and definition of an electrostat, with high sensitivity, dynamics and incredible tone! Like the inexpensive Tripath amps, the B200 is a relatively inexpensive overachiever. By comparison the JX-92S is nothing special.
And for those obsessed with technical measurements I submit the following as posted by another member in verbatim.
“the speaker has a frequency line, but dose people's Ear has a Listening line? because Ear has different Sensitivity with different sounds, so i think Ear must has a listening line and the line is not Straight. it's a curve,the more Complex thing is different people has different curve,and the curve will changed with people's age.so when the speaker's frequency line can fit people's listening line, people will feel the sound very nice,if can not fit,even the frequency line is so good,people will not feel good…”
JohnnyBoy,
Thanks for that recommendation. If I ever build a larger speaker then the Visaton will be on the short list. Right now I am looking for something smaller with which to build compact office speakers.
The Jordans look to have a good balance of efficiency, size and frequency extension. But the price! I am also considering the 3" units from Aura, Hi-Vi and TangBand. If you have any other suggestions please let me know.
Thanks
Thanks for that recommendation. If I ever build a larger speaker then the Visaton will be on the short list. Right now I am looking for something smaller with which to build compact office speakers.
The Jordans look to have a good balance of efficiency, size and frequency extension. But the price! I am also considering the 3" units from Aura, Hi-Vi and TangBand. If you have any other suggestions please let me know.
Thanks
audiosteve,
Fostex, the108 Sigma's are nice, they come up used for less than $100 a pair from time to time but you have to be quick to snap them up. Haven't heard the E version. The 126 seems to be a current favorite as well. The Tang Band TB W3-871S certainly looks interesting. Don't forget the CSS FR125S.
Fostex, the108 Sigma's are nice, they come up used for less than $100 a pair from time to time but you have to be quick to snap them up. Haven't heard the E version. The 126 seems to be a current favorite as well. The Tang Band TB W3-871S certainly looks interesting. Don't forget the CSS FR125S.
In the development process, the ear is just another measurment tool. It's about finding meaning full relationships between information optained from different tools, including the ear. For enjoyment, the ear plays a totally different roll.JohnnyBoy said:
Perfect looking data may not turn out a good system unless it is truely understood what makes the data perfect or imperfect.
Stixx said:
Or so... i had a pair of his Jordan Watts 32 years ago, and before that he was doing the 50 mm driver & before that he was at Goodmans so > 50 years.
As to the phase plug in the JX92, i won't hazard a guess... the cap does seem a left over from the JX150 where its shape had as much to do with it being part of the suspension as being a dustcap.
dave
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