old surround and whizzer issues

[Zen Mod]

yes,I searched

victims...or patients : pair of old Philips AD12100/H8

culprits : hardened surround (cloth probably threated with something bitumen-like ) and somewhat soft whizzers

question one: what can I use to soften surrounds , besides burning in ...... just because they're just sleeping several yrs ;

question two:
what's better for whizzer - diluted PVA wood glue (white one,fer sure) or Dammar ?
I have plenty xperience with wood glue in that purposes,but just recently I found Dammar locally ,and didn't bought and tried it yet......

TIA for any answer......OT post and trolling more than wellcome

[lovechild]

Hi

a friend once managed to softened the cloth surrounds of his old fullrangers with fine oil (like sewing machine oil). Use a Q-Tip or cotton pad and carefully bring the oil on the surrounds and check if it soaked in, if so be happy! if not it probably wont help

He then put the speakers in his oven at like 50°C, so the oil gets even more fluid and spreads evenly throu the cloth...

Then let them cool down and play some bass heavy rock music, really ******* loud -- the speakers will be done when your neightbours ring at the door...

No idea about the dammar question, I only remember that he sometimes found it helpfull to add a layer of tissue paper to fix soft the whizzers, I'd use cheap wallpaper paste, 'cause it's none destructive -- can easily be removed with water...

cheers,
LC

BTW.
How's the Alep J-X doing?


edit: WOW! the 4 letter word is automatically replaced with **** -- that's america!!!

[Frank Berry]

Caution. Won't the oil cause the glue to let go? A friend did the same thing and after a week or so, the cone pulled loose from the frame.

[Cal Weldon]

Originally posted by lovechild
edit: WOW! the 4 letter word is automatically replaced with **** -- that's america!!!

Well, Australia actually, but who keeps track?

We don't like the use of coarse language here. It takes away from the emphasis you are trying to achieve and reflects poorly on the user.

#%$*&!@ Got it?

[lovechild]

Hey Cal,

Well, Australia actually....

Uhhh, sorry!

otherwise I'm absolutely fine with that politics, the ***** stick out more than any word could

@ Frank, I think it depends on the kinda oil -- maybe on the clue thou, then Choky mightget into trouble -- but my friends speakers are still in one peace and working well, after more than a year.

cheers
LC

[Zen Mod]

Originally posted by lovechild
Hey Cal,



Uhhh, sorry!

otherwise I'm absolutely fine with that politics, the ***** stick out more than any word could

@ Frank, I think it depends on the kinda oil -- maybe on the clue thou, then Choky mightget into trouble -- but my friends speakers are still in one peace and working well, after more than a year.

cheers
LC

maybe Olive oil............but that's little scary.........even for me

now I have Idea.......I'll ask BudP to look here


"I have a cunnin' plan".........

[BudP]

Zen,

Yikes!

How stiff is stiff?

If you have Elmers white wood glue that is almost good enough for a re coat, after you remove the gunk that is there now. Poly Viny Acrylic is what you really really want and it is available whirled wide.

When I worked at Nestorovic's home/lab/speaker factory, we coated all of the paper cone drivers and foam surrounds with the stuff. True PVA never hardens, is always slightly tacky and flexible. It should be quite useful for maybe the back side of the whizzer, because, of course, you want to EnABL the front.....

I do think I would try to remove what is there now, without disturbing the fabric too much. Maybe try 99.9% pure isopropyl alcohol to see if that will loosen its grip? Would hate to try anything more corrosive, but I would be really surprised to see you get this old unknown chemical back to original form.

Maybe a new foam surround..... ducking and running here....

Bud

[Zen Mod]

Originally posted by BudP
Zen,

Yikes!

How stiff is stiff?

If you have Elmers white wood glue that is almost good enough for a re coat, after you remove the gunk that is there now. Poly Viny Acrylic is what you really really want and it is available whirled wide.

When I worked at Nestorovic's home/lab/speaker factory, we coated all of the paper cone drivers and foam surrounds with the stuff. True PVA never hardens, is always slightly tacky and flexible. It should be quite useful for maybe the back side of the whizzer, because, of course, you want to EnABL the front.....

I do think I would try to remove what is there now, without disturbing the fabric too much. Maybe try 99.9% pure isopropyl alcohol to see if that will loosen its grip? Would hate to try anything more corrosive, but I would be really surprised to see you get this old unknown chemical back to original form.

Maybe a new foam surround..... ducking and running here....

Bud

hey man...tnx to that..........
so -you worked with old Mile .......Mioljub Nestorovic,legend of Yu audio electronics........
I still have letter from him,hand written, where he gives me few tips for his "20W Lab amp" ,which he made for (lemme translate) "Phonetic and Speech Pathology Institute" in Belgrade........
I have Xerox of entire script for that project,along with OPT winding sheet............

Kudos to him

I'll try with alcohol for starters........

what you say for Dammar thingie?

and-can I bug you for EnABLE pattern when ..........I really need it for more than one pair of spks.........various.......

btw-part of day I spent listening one AD1265/M4.............boy......these boyz really were engineers........12" with soul of nice tweet........I can't wait to hear what some tweeks will do for that already unique driver.........

edit:
I really misstracked thinkin' about old man Mile....

I can make tomorrow few pic of real stuff......I'll not hesitate to lay few strokes of PVA on cone,but origigi thing on surround was (I think) semi-sticky kind of tar - bitumen looking goo........or it was just black rubber -cement

it's pretty hard talking about things with ,say, local names ........cement is completelly different thing in my country than in West;

hehe- rubber and cement for us are two totally exclusive things......

anyway.......

PVA whitie is ordinary wood glue ? diluted with water for our purposes?

and......rubber cement is mebbe Tip-Top glue for bike tyres ?

[BudP]

Zen,

The Elmer's is not quite as flexible as PVA. You should look around in chemical supply houses maybe. Small amounts can be gotten from Parts Express, as glue for attaching cone plus surround and spider to the metal basket. You will likely need more than those small bottles and I do not know what sort of labor you would have to perform to get it through customs. I do not know what Dammar is so I cannot comment on it.

I would love to have the documents you speak of. Mioljub once told me that my difficulty with hearing words from speakers was a well known problem in his homeland and that he had studied the problem. Did not think there was any help for me except the EnABL process, which he knew about and did not want to use.

He was afraid there would be great legal turmoil caused by this knowledge and would not even allow Ned, his son, to provide the mathematical models I still so badly need. Ned had just finished with studying boundary layer physics, I believe at Stanford, not certain. He was very excited when he discovered what I was doing and taught me all I know about boundary layers.

Truly intelligent and refined people, and Bebe still looked like her famous painting the last time I saw her.

I will be happy to provide patterns for you, though if you have Corel Draw, of any vintage, that would help and if you or a friend has Auto Cad I have a lisp routine that will generate a conic section with the blocks in the proper place, from just four simple measurements, but it needs Auto Cad to run.

Bud

[Cal Weldon]

Originally posted by Zen Mod

question one: what can I use to soften surrounds