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Old 8th June 2008, 09:57 AM   #791
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Quote:
Originally posted by GM


Greets!

No, you can not infer that per se. I mean if you are referring to what I consider a high performance system, then no, I wouldn't consider using a 'FR' driver except in a small enough room that necessitates a near-field listening position. Here, nothing AFAIK can compete with a state of the art (SOTA) 'FR' driver except possibly SOTA headphones.

GM
Hi GM,

Thanks for the clarification......
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Old 8th June 2008, 11:37 AM   #792
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No real surprise GM & I are in agreement on this. No personal reflections of any kind whatsoever, and nothing at all against the drivers, within the boundaries & limitations applicable to all FR units, but high performance per £ they are not, except for a very exclusive group of people who favour specific things, and have the kind of income that permits a different set of values. Nothing wrong with that either of course, but it's fantasy to suggest these values will apply across the board for the majority of people, or even those who appreciate high quality audio.

We're back down to how much are people willing to pay for the last few percentage points of performance. I say 'last few percentage points' because how much 'better' (whatever that means) are, say, the D5nfs (~£1450 per pair) over, say, a pair of FE208ESigmas + pair of FT17 supertweeters (~£400). So much so that the asking price of 3.625 times that of the Fostex does not cause even the slightest pause for thought? I very much doubt it for most people, especially as the latter will likely kill the former stone dead at the frequency extremes, although YMMV as ever of course. You generally get what you pay for, but like Minnie the Moocher, the law of diminishing returns is alive and well in Berkeley Square.
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Old 8th June 2008, 01:32 PM   #793
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Old 8th June 2008, 01:41 PM   #794
Cheng is offline Cheng  Singapore
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Hi all,

peace!

Well after reading the post, i have some thoughts in mind that i may want to say.

In reality, I cant afford a Feastrex but i do believe that in certain way ( like the lowther) it just better the fostex ... (which is subjective to individual listening preference.)

But there is one thing I would like to highlight...

Proper calculated/simulated speaker box designed is equally or even more important before we can make judgement on any driver!

Although i dun always post (seldom) post any comment on the diyaudio forum, but i do read most of the threads in the fullrange forum which led me to build the BIB for the affordable ff165k. I find that the folks here are really very very helpful, knowledeble and most important willingness to share... to name afew Scottmoose, gm,MJK, gozilla & many more...

cheers
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Old 8th June 2008, 08:12 PM   #795
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Since we appear to have introduced a Latin element, how's your Horace? Very appropriate for expensive drivers:

Rem facias, rem
si possis, recte, si non, quocumque modo, rem.
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Old 8th June 2008, 09:37 PM   #796
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Default 9Dnf

A women friend of my wife and I came over to visit last Wednesday...
She listened the Feastrex/ Maiko and said. "I want this kind of thing in my 3 homes, Santa Fe, Hawaii, Park City.

Cool

So we are starting with the D9nf drivers.
Then an AMP, Monoblocks
USB/DAC
etc, etc

Ill send photos of the room.

Thanks Joe for your help.

Phil
Santa Fe
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Old 8th June 2008, 11:27 PM   #797
mluckow is offline mluckow  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scottmoose
We're back down to how much are people willing to pay for the last few percentage points of performance.

[snip]

So much so that the asking price of 3.625 times that of the Fostex does not cause even the slightest pause for thought?

Good point, Scott. I was recently at an audio open house where I heard some Wilson Watt Puppies that were going for something like $20k or $30k, so I was making my mental comparison with those and with the $60k systems I heard at RMAF. Compared to those expensive systems, Feastrex has excellent cost-performance. But you're right--compared to the Fostex alternatives, they might not. (I'm also building some Zigmahornets for another room, and at a total cost of $100 for the pair, they might even beat the Fostex speakers in cost-performance.)

So, cost-performance seems to be entirely relative/subjective/a matter of perspective.

Mike
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Old 8th June 2008, 11:52 PM   #798
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scottmoose
We're back down to how much are people willing to pay for the last few percentage points of performance. I say 'last few percentage points' because how much 'better' (whatever that means) are, say, the D5nfs (~£1450 per pair) over, say, a pair of FE208ESigmas + pair of FT17 supertweeters (~£400). So much so that the asking price of 3.625 times that of the Fostex does not cause even the slightest pause for thought?
As the owner of both, I can say Yes, not even the slightest pause.

If Performance / Price is an issue, than Pioneer's Bu20Fu20's win
hands down. Now I like ALL these drivers one way or another, but
Lowther, AER, and Feastrex do seem to fall into a special category.
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Old 9th June 2008, 02:43 AM   #799
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A price reduction during such economic instability implies something has been over inflated during the boom times, ergo an inordinately low ratio of performance-per-£, which can destroy its exclusivity factor.
A very understandable conclusion that does not apply to this situation… In fact, far from being over inflated, it is very clear to me that Feastrex drivers are under priced worldwide, not based on any subjective judgment regarding their performance, but based on standard commonly accepted methods of arriving at a local retail price based on their export price. Distributors of such "exclusive" products, especially in small countries, may decide to behave as direct dealers without creating a wholesale price for dealers and manufacturers. Direct pricing is a distinct disincentive for retailers and small manufacturers who need to make a profit on all of the materials they employ. So by denying a greater margin we cut off potential allies. So be it. As I mentioned, there is no point in swimming upstream against the prevailing worldwide prices. This is an advantage for the consumer and hobbyist, though for most hobbyists the difference between $8000 and $6000 for a pair of drivers makes little difference.

As Feastrex enthusiasts we need to take a step backward and acknowledge that these drivers are in truth bandwidth limited. They will no more reproduce subterranean bass than they will super tweeter extension, nor do they rival the efficiencies found in compression drivers, or Altec and JBL woofers. What they do within their limitations is another matter, about which I have posted numerous times; often in the throes of Feastrex induced ecstasy. I have written elsewhere:

While I may have gone through phases where I thought that there was only one way to skin a cat, sharing rooms with extremely talented designers with widely differing points of view has taught me that, in fact, the approaches to the holy grail are manifold, and that each approach has its joys and limitations. While some of you may disagree, I put the magnificent TAD R-1 and its predecessor the M-1 and the Magico M-6 at the very top of the list of multi-way, dynamic speakers. They are in a class by themselves when it comes to accuracy, full frequency extension and the exposition of the full stage event. If its rock and roll or a symphony orchestra, it is all there, chamber music, small ensemble, pianissimo - it is all there. In visual terms these speakers might be represented by something like this:

Click the image to open in full size.

Way over at the other end of the spectrum is the single ended triode, high efficiency, full range crowd. Why would anyone, given half a chance, sacrifice the whole enchilada as exemplified by the previously mentioned masterworks, for a speaker that is challenged top and bottom and an amplifier that had better see a 95 - 98db efficiency rating lest it bottom out when you need it most? I think that these types of systems have the potential to "have it all" in another way: properly executed, such systems allow the listener (or the listener's brain) to fill in the blanks. Visually speaking, they might be represented thusly:

Click the image to open in full size.



This is not to suggest that top end single driver full range systems are inherently romantic, (I don't think so) but rather that the artist who painted this scene evoked what was there equally well by what he left out, and perhaps thereby even conveyed a sense of the state of mind the actual scene gave rise to when he witnessed it - powerful stuff! Single Ended Triode, high efficiency lovers claim to have a more powerful emotional connection with the music with these types of systems than they do with the first type.

This is truly an apples and oranges situation. We have to defer to GM when it comes to his extensive "textbook and/or 'hands on' knowledge of driver/speaker design". Let's not stick our heads in the sand.

On the other hand,

Quote:
high performance per £ they are not, except for a very exclusive group of people who favour specific things, and have the kind of income that permits a different set of values. Nothing wrong with that either of course, but it's fantasy to suggest these values will apply across the board for the majority of people,
O.K. I do favor specific things: Ultimate coherency, density and accuracy of information, ultimate musicality. In this regard, I feel that Feastrex drivers are unrivalled and do in fact represent a very big bang for the buck (or Pound). This is not to suggest, Scott, that you don't favor these things as well. You may very well feel that they are more readily and easily accessable elsewhere. I have no quarrel with that, nor do I expect the majority of people to feel that a single Feastrex driver can give them everything they want.

Quote:
or even those who appreciate high quality audio
It is my belief that there are many who appreciate high quality audio who will respond favorably when exposed to Feastrex drivers.
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Old 9th June 2008, 03:32 AM   #800
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Default The non audio file

My friend Johanna clearly is not an audio file.

She does not know ANYTHING about imaging, sound stage, ""PRAT"" nor does she know what single ended is.... And she does not care.

But something happened when she sat down...closed her eyes...and...simply... ...listened...


She slowly open her eyes and said...

"I want this in my houses"

Phil
Santa Fe


Have Mercy on the Music...
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