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Old 8th June 2008, 01:31 AM   #771
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Quote:
Originally posted by GM ...a point source's narrowing power response with increasing frequency...
Hi GM, could you explain that to a novice, or point me to something that might explain it? Thanks in advance!
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Old 8th June 2008, 01:57 AM   #772
mluckow is offline mluckow  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by cdwitmer

I'm sorry, please remind me again . . . which model(s) of Feastrex driver have you listened to that you're basing the above opinions on? Thx,

-- Chris

Quote:
Originally posted by GM
None and will never need to since I have a good enough textbook and/or 'hands on' knowledge . . . .

GM

GM,

I don't know how anyone could judge these drivers without ever having heard them.

There are other factors involved in Feastrex drivers that make it impossible to judge them without hearing them. Knowledge of other speakers doesn't apply. For example, the special Japanese washi paper that the cones are made from creates a very unique "organic" sound that I've never heard in any other speakers, and I've heard a few. I felt that the speakers with the D5nf drivers demoed at RMAF last year beat many (perhaps all) the other speakers I heard at RMAF, and many of them cost *way* more than they did. (Some of those other speakers cost up to $60k a pair.) I thought they all sounded fabulous, but when I went back to the Feastrex rooms and listened again, it was like a breath of fresh air. It suddenly occurred to me that the other speakers sounded somewhat "electronic," while the Feastrex speakers sounded more natural, real, and "organic" to me. It's difficult to describe with words; you just have to hear them to know what I'm talking about.

Which brings me back to my point: guessing what they might sound like isn't accurate, especially when it comes to high-end audio sound. Textbook knowledge and knowledge of other speakers just doesn't substitute for ears.

At least imho.

Mike
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Old 8th June 2008, 02:46 AM   #773
BTW is offline BTW
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Quote:
Originally posted by GM
None and will never need to since I have a good enough textbook and/or 'hands on' knowledge of driver/speaker design to know the electro-acoustical-mechanical performance limitations of the various driver design types and the trade-offs required to make them wide BW. Even limited to a narrower BW with LF/super tweeter systems they still wouldn't be a serious contender IMO due to a point source's narrowing power response with increasing frequency.


Hi GM,

IMO from this post can I infer that Fullrangers are not your cup of tea.... Am I right ?

If I am right ... then there is absolutely no need for further discussion on cost vs performance ... simply because it's still not your cup of tea right ?
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Old 8th June 2008, 03:07 AM   #774
GM is online now GM  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by rjbond3rd

Hi GM, could you explain that to a novice, or point me to something that might explain it? Thanks in advance!
Greets!

By definition a point source is one that is small compared to the WLs reproduced, so as the WLs get smaller in diameter with increasing frequency it begins beaming, ergo more of its acoustic power is concentrated over a narrower listening arc.

There's plenty of references, tutorials, polar response plots, etc., scattered around the various forums and the net for both point sources, duplex drivers and various horn types, so have fun Googling!

GM
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Old 8th June 2008, 04:03 AM   #775
fred76 is offline fred76  Philippines
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Common ground :

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/hu...12/124549.html

http://www.maxonic-audio.com/p1.png

Different aesthetic/extreme.
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Old 8th June 2008, 04:19 AM   #776
GM is online now GM  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by mluckow

I don't know how anyone could judge these drivers without ever having heard them.
And I don't see how anyone with a passable command of the English language could arrive at such a ridiculous (to me) conclusion from what I wrote. One more time, I made no such judgment since I've never auditioned them and even if I had or eventually are able to do so I no longer consider my hearing good enough to make any subjective judgments about any speaker system beyond our critical hearing BW. Again, my statements/opinions are grounded by the electro-acoustical-mechanical limitations that govern all 'FR' drivers, so unless Feastrex has somehow suspended these physical laws...........

Bottom line, we're talking apples n' oranges, so the rest of your subjective judgments while somewhat enlightening, are irrelevant to what I wrote, though we'll have to agree to disagree with this gross overstatement: 'Knowledge of other speakers doesn't apply' since you don't know what all I've had the fortune to be exposed to, though I do agree that its diaphragm construction probably does set it sonically apart from the rest of the pack just as certain WE/Lansing/Altec ones did in their time.

GM
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Old 8th June 2008, 04:26 AM   #777
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Quote:
Originally posted by GM ...ergo more of its acoustic power is concentrated over a narrower listening arc...
Aha, gotcha -- I hadn't heard the term power response before. Alas, there is too much to learn. Thank you!
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Old 8th June 2008, 04:44 AM   #778
GM is online now GM  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by BTW

IMO from this post can I infer that Fullrangers are not your cup of tea.... Am I right ?
Greets!

No, you can not infer that per se. I mean if you are referring to what I consider a high performance system, then no, I wouldn't consider using a 'FR' driver except in a small enough room that necessitates a near-field listening position. Here, nothing AFAIK can compete with a state of the art (SOTA) 'FR' driver except possibly SOTA headphones.

GM
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Old 8th June 2008, 04:47 AM   #779
TerryO is offline TerryO  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by BTW


Hi GM,

IMO from this post can I infer that Fullrangers are not your cup of tea.... Am I right ?

If I am right ... then there is absolutely no need for further discussion on cost vs performance ... simply because it's still not your cup of tea right ?

BTW,

From your post can I infer that you don't know much about Fullrangers?

Actually, I'm almost willing to bet money on it, as obviously you're not aware of the 100's of posts that GM has written on fullrange speakers over the years. There are very few designers in the world that can rival GM's depth of knowledge when it comes to speaker design. I might add that when GM voices an opinion, it's just that... an opinion.
However, opinions are like batting averages, in that we all have one, but some are much higher than others and that might explain why most of us will listen to him and not you.

If I am right...then there is absolutely no need for further input from you until such time as you address your lack of a fundamental understanding of the principles involved.

Sincerely,
TerryO
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Old 8th June 2008, 05:04 AM   #780
mluckow is offline mluckow  United States
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GM,

I sincerely apologize if I'm misunderstanding you, but aren't you saying that you believe Feastrex drivers have relatively poor price/performance compared to other components that total about the same amount of money?

If so, then maybe we're disagreeing on what "performance" means. In my opinion, Feastrex drivers perform very well compared to other systems I heard at RMAF--even those that cost a lot more--but I mean "performance" in a subjective sense of the word ("beauty is in the eye of the beholder"). Did you mean it in some quantifiable way, e.g., specifications that were derived from electronic or acoustic measurements?

Again, I apologize if I'm misunderstanding you.

Mike
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