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Old 15th June 2009, 01:59 PM   #1671
dpaws is offline dpaws  United Kingdom
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Afternoon all - For once it's so nice to be able to speak with experience - thanks so much Guys, you know who you are...

I had the pleasure of listening to the 9 type III in a single ported enclosure during my visit to the Feastrex showroom. At times the music distracted the conversation so I know something good was happening, the sound reaching deeper than my ears. However, I do have some issues, although I accept they may be personal and relate only to my own Holy Grail...

The music being played was almost exclusively jazz, smokey, atmospheric yes but rarely complex. I listened to a solo drum / bass track and the driver / enclosure surprised me with its authority... However, when I found a familiar recording of Simon & Garfunkel something wasn't quite right - the "top end" seemed to shout and the musical complexity seemed to confuse the sound, especially at the bottom end....

I only wish I'd had the foresight to take some other tracks with me to try and pin point more accurately. I did question why no-one had ever measured the set-up, or any of the set-ups there - yes, I'm aware that measuring is a Western obsession but surely there are times that you need to know what's going on? What is the recording and what is simply beyond the systems capabilities

The Feastrex driver and the brand itself obviously has incredible potential, but to achieve greatness I feel more versatile skills are required in house, a more in depth knowledge and technical understanding.

One needs to know what the driver is doing badly and to tweak to improve it - by listening alone is for me too subjective and therefore biased. Phase plugs for example - change the shape yes, but understand how response and raditaion pattern changes too. Once the basics are understood and the system optimised then is the time for the special varnishes etc, icing on the cake....

Someone mentioned that the Field Coil drivers have a much improved treble response - why not measure it - how much better - good enough to forego a tweeter? Where's the upper -3db point? What about off axis?

At the moment I can see a huge following from the jazz loving 300B SE crowd, but I want more, much more. I want Floyd to transport me planets away, to boogie to Fleetwood Mac, to melt into Bocelli and rock with the Kaisers. I'm sure it'll come, but IMHO there are only glimpses of this versitility so far...

I only wish our forum gurus could go and play for a month or two in the factory.... In my opinion if the brand is to develope it needs urgent investment of time and expertise from a different angle - and expertise is never cheap. A financial chicken and egg scenario for which I pray someone is brave enough to stick their necks out. I really do wish eveyone involved the best of luck - truely wonderful, humble and deserving people.

I'm a proud owner after all, a situation I don't expect to change.
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Old 16th June 2009, 03:05 AM   #1672
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Hi,

Quote:
I only wish our forum gurus could go and play for a month or two in the factory.... In my opinion if the brand is to develope it needs urgent investment of time and expertise from a different angle - and expertise is never cheap. A financial chicken and egg scenario for which I pray someone is brave enough to stick their necks out. I really do wish eveyone involved the best of luck - truely wonderful, humble and deserving people.
I am not a guru but I could offer a couple of months of my time to work as a slave, for a food and beverage...and a pair of D9...to see how they'd sound on my modded Autograph enclosures, front and back corner loaded horns, that I am developing in my head

(Well, maybe two months will not be enough to build these beasts)

Regards,
M,
for "monothematic".
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Old 21st June 2009, 12:07 AM   #1673
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Quote:
Originally posted by dpaws


The Feastrex driver and the brand itself obviously has incredible potential, but to achieve greatness I feel more versatile skills are required in house, a more in depth knowledge and technical understanding.

Yes, in hindsight, I must admit my regrets in not having had enough time while there to get into the nitty gritty of measurements as was our initial intention.

Indeed, I have no fear about continually blowing my own cover as not being personally very interested in equipment measurements as a tool for getting beyond the "basics" of speaker design. Of course, sometimes the basics can need to see refinement even in the later processes of design refinement. Even many western designers would probably let you know that their own process is more akin to juggling inspiration with practicality rather than the linear "clay to wall" approach, as many product design textbooks would have us think.

Considering that, it was still my intent to spearhead this measurement and analysis project for the sake of better communicating the virtues of Feastrex products to a Western audience. Instead, I found the humble process of learning to make the drivers themselves as the most important during my time there.

Since then, I have found that refining my speaker cabinet design by ear a more fruitful endeavour than to measure the drivers. There are others out there with the drivers and software. Also, its not my job anymore...

As has been echoed by other people many times on this forum, there is the notion that Feastrex's approach to audio reaches the rare level of "artform" rather than as a solely scientific pursuit. Though I would venture to say that this "artform" metaphor is even an imperfect translation of the cultural paradigm of Japanese artisanship which is much broader in scope. In either case, this consideration as "art" is closer perhaps (from my own limited perspective) to what is actually going on in the Japanese culture which so uniquely gave birth to these drivers.

To view the tip of the iceberg for what sort of an artisanship - analysis project I had in mind, view the PBS Nova on samurai swords. It is concise, to the point, and indeed does show how the deliberate Japanese artisanship process over many years functions as its own scientific process, and has done so far longer than formal western science has been around. Let us remember that the scientific process at the beginning of the last century was not nearly as deliberate as it was in the latter half. Same goes for the 19th century back.

With even the most powerful enzymes present in our brain's digestive process of all this cultural information, all we could definitively say as westerners is that relationship between Japanese artisanship and science as far as their respective efficacy at reaching positive outcomes "warrants more research."

Alas, my own Feastrex speaker design, designed along these lines of "artisanship," to the best of my understanding, speaks for itself. The folks who have heard it so far have been for the most part very, VERY happy with it. Only one of those people is a forum member, however. The rest are not that geeky

Feastrex sound, and my own sound for that matter is not without a few quirks here and there, something that any artist simply must take accountability for (from a western academic perspective on the artistic process).

The goal in musical communication, however, is for people to learn to listen past the canvas in order to be touched by the holographic representation of beauty, love, longing, elation, or etc. inside.

I would indeed argue that the adjectives that the designer is most accustomed to in their own lives are almost without fail the adjectives most readily communicated by their product. For instance, from my own perspective I chose the four adjectives above as the musical sensations that I feel Feastrex communicates most readily to the listener. Good stuff...

Back to this "touching of the holograph," there is a necessary surrendering of the listener that must take place in order for any sort of music - live or recorded - to even begin to be appreciated on the level at which it is created. At even the clearest levels of audio, or the closest spousal relationships to musical geniuses, we still must put ourselves aside in order to listen to the music itself. "We gotta shut-up to listen."

This analogy taken further, the average consumer is indeed able to travel through this perceptive barrier at many different price points in the field of the audio arts. Usually the greatest barrier to the clear perception of music is that of our own minds: our emotionally numb, technically overanalytical consciousnesses. A condition that many westerners in particular suffer from.

Where Feastrex stands completely alone from this Western paradigm is in the uniquely clear, honest, and heartfelt quality of the holograph it presents, and the warm naturalness of the canvass that it comes through. A vision far deeper into the music than other full range direct radiators of which I am aware.

Understanding this potential greatness, and how easily it could be destroyed, I decided early on that I would not attempt to unduly "juxtapose" my own cultural artistic process onto that of the Japanese any more than that which would happen out of definition based upon the fact that I am a woodworker who loves his '78 chevy truck instead of some tiny daihatsu.

Therefore, taking accountability for my own limitations as having been "birthed by the west" as far as my own speaker design process goes and determining that I would work neither with nor against this limitation, I have therefore found it the better approach to only consider myself as a "steward" of the Japanese artisans who taught me so graciously. I feel, as do many who have heard my loudspeaker that the sonic results agree with this more humble approach. Not a team, but "oneness" for a single driver.

So yes, If we are to understand the form at its human roots, then we are yielded the most "human" sounding loudspeaker... This "humanness," while still a little fuzzy in wording and still yet an imperfect translation of the root Japanese artistic and cultural paradigm, is my only goal in my Feasrtex pursuits and is my best attempt at translating an utterance which contains no words and no folly. It comes from my heart.

-Clark
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Old 21st June 2009, 12:49 AM   #1674
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bunpei and cdwitmer,

Very good observation.

I agree fully totally. I love my Ingrid 5EII truly deeply madly.
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Old 21st June 2009, 12:55 AM   #1675
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Kan the Kanisawa make a custom SE Transformer with 14K Primary?.
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Old 21st June 2009, 06:22 AM   #1676
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I am fairly certain that Mr. Kanisawa confines himself to power transformers only. However, If you would be interested in a custom-wound Finemet (nanocrystalline) core OPT, I think the folks at Feastrex could make arrangements with their supplier of OPTs to have something wound to your specs. I think the prices would be no more than you would pay for something off the shelf from Noguchi, and might even be slightly less. If my understanding is correct, one of Feastrex's overseas customers just recently purchased a pair of such SE OPTs through Feastrex's introduction. Since Feastrex is not in the transformer business and does not wish to be, I doubt they would be interested in arranging special-order transformers for just anybody, but for users of their drivers I'm pretty sure they would be happy to be of assistance.

-- Chris
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Old 21st June 2009, 08:46 AM   #1677
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Quote:
Originally posted by gelatomonster Kan the Kanisawa make a custom SE Transformer with 14K Primary?.
Kanisawa is the best manufacturer of not output transformers but power transformers.
As for output transformers, another Japanese manufacturer, who is also the best for the product domain, can produce a pair based on your custom requirements using "Fine Met Core"
materials.
If you want this, I can introduce you to the manufacturer to and transfer your order to him as my non-business base activities. Please feel free to contact to me by e-mail, hal@feastrex.com
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Old 21st June 2009, 09:40 AM   #1678
dpaws is offline dpaws  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally posted by blumenco


Since then, I have found that refining my speaker cabinet design by ear a more fruitful endeavour than to measure the drivers. There are others out there with the drivers and software. Also, its not my job anymore...

-Clark
With the greatest respect, how on earth can anyboby take you and your designs seriously? As a designer you need to know how your product is performing - I appreciate that to measure speakers is a complex and techical operation, and interpreting the information obtained in a meaningful manner even more so - but if you don't know how to do it then why not enlist on of our forum gurus or a local University to assist you?

Whilst no-one can doubt your abilities with wood, your Feastrex cabinets are hardly pushing the boundaries of performance and have achieved little public acclaim from the industry.

With respect, the Feastrex drivers are akin to a Ferrari - and we are driving around in first gear on a shopping run. Hell, mine even sound good mounted in a redundant pair of chipboard shelves.

Maxxhorn have at least sat down with a calculator and designed an enclosure and the results are for all to see. I've no doubt that many hours were spent tuning by ear to refine but the overall performance levels were attained by doing the maths. At last the drivers have shifted up a gear....

The eloquent and flowery paragraphs serve only to disguise the ignorance and little to reinforce the image that Feastrex need to survive in the West.

IMHO it's time for all associated with the brand to stop the words and start the numbers. Once the maths has been done then the drivers will be able, at last, to speak for themselves....
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Old 21st June 2009, 10:07 AM   #1679
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Yeah, Clark, he does have a point, you know. This isn't the 17th century and we're not in Cremona anymore. There are more scientific ways of getting results than repeated cut-build-listen, cut-build-listen, cut-build-listen. You Stradivarius wannabe, come into the 21st century already!

-- Chris
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Old 21st June 2009, 11:45 AM   #1680
MJK is offline MJK  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by dpaws
With the greatest respect, how on earth can anyboby take you and your designs seriously?
Over 1500 posts in a 3+ year period with very little technical information provided. One strong proponent who posts almost exclusively to bring this thread to the top. Long philosophical posts praising the mystical properties of the materials and the performance of the drivers. It is hard to take any of this seriously.

Sorry,
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