• Disclaimer: This Vendor's Forum is a paid-for commercial area. Unlike the rest of diyAudio, the Vendor has complete control of what may or may not be posted in this forum. If you wish to discuss technical matters outside the bounds of what is permitted by the Vendor, please use the non-commercial areas of diyAudio to do so.

Exciting new line of fullrange drivers from Feastrex

Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.
blumenco said:
yeah,

I am definitely a (personal) fan of the 45/2A3. Back at Cain and Cain, I spent alot of time with Terry Cain's electronluv 10Y to 45 system. the 45 amp ran a few different tubes, and I don't remember the names. Just the stunning dynamics. If you throw enough transformers at a 45 tube or 2A3 tube, they transform into something of a completely different ilk. Nothing is perfect, but geez, certain approaches really have a way of getting the word "wow" to pass the lips, and to then getting you to sink in your chair and simply watch the music unfold.

-Clark


Clark,

I have to agree.... the 45 is probably my favorite DHT and I'm lucky enough to have a very large collection :D . Even so, not all 45 tubes are created equal. I've concluded that the older Balloon glass versions are, well... old and outdated compared the later ST glass versions, but even these (ST) vary quite a bit as some internal structures are less rigid than others. While many prefer the older RCA ST versions, I don't like them. Still, with certain ST glass versions I can achieve output noise better than 85dB below 1-watt output (using AC filaments which I prefer). IMHO, a DC filament is a bad idea on the 45.

My current 45 amps are all Hashimoto iron, Caddock and Mills resistors and all Axon film capacitors (no electrolytics), have been in service for over a year now and are just wonderful sounding (okay, I have to be a bit biased). Driving the D5nf is a wonderful experience with good source material.

Regards, KM
 
45 amps

KM have you used Mikes Magnequest Iron???
I use the nickel stack iron 5k : 16ohm 2 Watt with plate chokes... and a LOW DCR power supply...No lytics...Outstanding sound. Drives the 5Dnf's just fine thank you.

I have been wondering how the Hashimoto iron might sound... do they make an output trannie that likes a plate choke?
 
cdwitmer said:
KM, here is the PDF file of the newest version of the Feastrex enclosure in question.

.........he got best results by having the distance from the center of the driver and the top of the enclosure be the same as the distance between the center of the port and the bottom of the enclosure . . .

.........he also used an OVAL port of the same area............

Greets!

Curiosity got the best of me, so did a sim of it along with a DBR and my Weems pipe variant that I believe will perform well in-room once damped to suit though they don't look as half space flat overall as the factory cab. What they don't have is excessive peaking at Fb that requires more damping than the others (even worse for the driver/vent being equidistant from the top/bottom) and only my Weems variant has any impedance damping of note.

For sure all of them will require some BSC if not wall or corner loaded and/or driven with a high output impedance amp (up to DF = ~1). That, or the driver's response is somehow coaxed into ~ flatly shelving its mids/HF response which I've never seen and not sure if it's even possible for a BW to 20 kHz.

Oval/whatever doesn't audibly affect the sound as long as its not so high an aspect ratio or complex enough shape to make it acoustically resistive.

GM
 

Attachments

  • feastrex d5nf box alignment comparison.gif
    feastrex d5nf box alignment comparison.gif
    30.8 KB · Views: 844
Re: 45 amps

Phil Townsend said:
KM have you used Mikes Magnequest Iron???
I use the nickel stack iron 5k : 16ohm 2 Watt with plate chokes... and a LOW DCR power supply...No lytics...Outstanding sound. Drives the 5Dnf's just fine thank you.

I have been wondering how the Hashimoto iron might sound... do they make an output trannie that likes a plate choke?


Hi Phil,

Yes, I have some MQ Iron as well.... and it's nice stuff, albeit more traditional looking (not a bad thing). However, I like the Hashimoto iron... as you can get full matching iron, ie, Power, Choke and Output which all match, is superbly shielded and of excellent quality. I also like the solder lugs on all units over flying leads. I would also note that their power transformers are dead quiet... in fact, I don't think anyone makes power or choke units which could possibly be better than Hashimoto. Mike only makes output iron in general and some special purpose chokes. So you have to pick other brands for power and filter chokes....

Hashimoto does not make any parafeed outputs.... but IMHO, I prefer non-parafeed output stages based on the fact that with parafeed you still have a magnetic field "flip" as in push-pull outputs where traditional SE designs never flip the field. Maybe I'm just old and stubborn, but I don't like SRPP stages either and tend to have issues with ultrapath designs too.

My first amps were done with the 7-watt output iron... but I have their 20-watt and 30-watt SE outputs and they are double-C core designs.... and a large collection of power, choke, interstage and line out units for future projects (I plan ahead).

Regards, KM
 
GM said:


Greets!

Curiosity got the best of me, so did a sim of it along with a DBR and my Weems pipe variant that I believe will perform well in-room once damped to suit though they don't look as half space flat overall as the factory cab. What they don't have is excessive peaking at Fb that requires more damping than the others (even worse for the driver/vent being equidistant from the top/bottom) and only my Weems variant has any impedance damping of note.

For sure all of them will require some BSC if not wall or corner loaded and/or driven with a high output impedance amp (up to DF = ~1). That, or the driver's response is somehow coaxed into ~ flatly shelving its mids/HF response which I've never seen and not sure if it's even possible for a BW to 20 kHz.

Oval/whatever doesn't audibly affect the sound as long as its not so high an aspect ratio or complex enough shape to make it acoustically resistive.

GM

Greg,

Those sims are all belly intellestingu. At the moment, I am missing my old woodshop so that I could try some of those ideas out. One can never experiment enough :) After I get a chance to measure the new dampers for the D5nf, and if you are interested in the new specs for cabinet comparison's sake, we can send them to you by email.

Ok later,

Thanks,

Clark Blumenstein
 
Sounds interesting...

Clark -completely OT for a second (I hope Chris & all you Feastrex people will forgive me), & winding the clock back a goodly while, quick question for you. Any supplier recommendations for decent quality hardwoods from your former region of residence? I remember a very nice bit of 1in walnut you used for the side panels of some FE87E horns, that in UK terms cost very little indeed... been meaning to ask you on this subject for ages but never got around to it before.

I've a particular reason for asking actually.

a) Hardwoods are increasingly vanishing from the UK these days. Suppliers? Can't find one, aside from the odd big industrial types, who won't even look at you if you're not ordering £1,000 worth, minimum. It's getting to the stage where you have to sharpen the old axe, don ski-mask, slip into the forest under cover of darkness, chop something down yourself, & hope that either nobody notices, or puts it down to the work of the beavers that are slowly being reintroduced into the UK. And

b) Assuming I ever did find a decent supplier (I'd put the odds at zero squared. If anyone knows better, do let me know), then there's a rather good chance (ludicrous I know, but true) that it'd be cheaper to import what material I need myself than to pay our astronomical UK prices which are just getting worse & worse.

Cheers
Scott
 
yes,

Yes, we would be glad to!

The drivers with the new dampers will be measured as soon as we get a chance. Also, I need to make sure that all my measurement techniques are "down pat." Right now, we have field coil models with the new dampers at the factory. But it looks like some PM drivers will be rolling through fairly soon. Please be patient though...I am doing my best!

Scott: So here is the deal... I used wood from "Jensen Hardwoods" in Walla Walla. Mark Jensen is a tough, burly man and has had his mill for geez, something like 25-30 years now.

Walla Walla is great. Every year a bunch of heavy storms roll through and sadly (evil smile) topple magnificent trees of all types throughout the city and surrounding area. Mark actually turns down alot of lumber that is not pristine enough, because there is so much of it on the streets. Walla Walla walnut has this special purple in it that I have not seen before or since. Well, really, all the species from Walla Walla are kinda special and distinctive. Just like the wine, actually.

Ok, so I am done making you drool :) I am not sure if Mark has ever or is willing to ship internationally, but I am sure you could give him a skype (509 525 0765). He would really laugh if you tell him I sent you!

If he is reluctant to make himself extra busy by trying to fulfill an international order, you could likely shop online around the country from various lumber mills with websites, especially in the rural Northwest, where people know how to "git 'er done." Actually calling the places will get you a long way, as most websites tend to be a little underdeveloped. Some places can be coaxed into sending you pictures (very important), but if I were you, I would stay away from getting a reputation as a "tire kicker." Shopping for wood is a delicate balance. even more delicate from afar. Indeed, I can imagine that importing lumber is a cost effective way to do it in certain areas of the world. I would ask humbly though that you do some good research and stay away from endangered species... tisk tisk... Seattle, Portland, and Spokane (try out "lumber products") are good places to start in the Northwest.

If people are unwilling to ship internationally, but ARE willing to ship domestically, it might pay to have a friend in the states to reroute it for you at the fee of a 12 pack of fine brew shipped from an online U.S. grocery store.

The FE87E build that I did I would probably do a little different next time. The walnut was both good and bad for the sound. A huge panel like that is bound to shift. My pair never cracked or had any problems (still fingers crossed). I was very careful about assembly, planing and trying to ensure that nothing was under undue stress during construction. What did it do for the sound? well, they were certainly heavy, and yes, the bass and everything (after properly damped and tuned up) had a special tone quality to it.

I feel now that there were perhaps more cost effective ways of getting a special sound quality out of fostex though. Perhaps, for BLH I would suggest mounting the drivers against the inside of a thin decouplable baffle of solid wood (sealed against the enclosure by screws (or dowel and pin, if you really wanted to get freak nasty) and a non energy robbing gasket of some type). Hand sand a nice rounded edge to serve as a tiny wave guide, and there ya go. Nice improvement.

I watched the stars explode a few times from those little things. Its a completely geeky setup. Extreme nearfield with bottlehead 45 cathode follower power is what did the trick for me. The FE87E has a few special characteristics which are unique to its place in the world of the small fullrange driver. I remember having a discussion about this with Daniel Mason, something about the driver being easy to drive on some sort of a scale (?). I don't remember. I since moved on to other designs for the small full rangers which I felt milked more out of them. YMMV.

By the way, if this diversion gets lengthy, we might consider putting it into another thread. As a disclaimer though, I am currently really busy learning about the (mind blowing) processes behind the driver construction, and this is increasingly becoming my first priority. So I don't know how much reliable time I can spend online, as each moment spent here I could be learning, sleeping, carrying water up the temple steps :) Literally, insert your favorite metaphor for apprenticeship to a Japanese master! But that said, it is really great chatting with everyone here whenever I get a chance!

Thanks,

-Clark
 
Another tough day in the life of a Japanese apprentice, glasshopper?:D

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


Looks pretty brutal if you ask me . . . ;)

-- Chris
 
And here I am, driving around IBI's company dump truck. I am looking to get some long horn steer horns sent out so I can mount them on the front. Essential!

Ok, Chris, Lets just note, that all these pictures were taken during some of my (precious few) days off. Akiyama-san's philosophy of the work week?

(these are some direct quotes from a conversation during one my first few days here)

"monday, tuesday, wednesday, thrusday, friday, friday, monday, monday, tuesday, wednesday,..."

"Every day, wake up very early, shining Mr. Akiyama's shoes, etc."

Hmm...these were jokes, sorta, but I knew that there was still a sense of truth in these statements, and that trouble was probably brewing from the get go...and time revealed that in fact it was.

In this case, hard fought compromise prevailed in the end.

-Clark

P.S. Akiyama's pictures of me, looking back, were simply AWEFUL! At no point was I actually even looking at the camera. He was sneeky and snapped them of me when I was at my worst. Completely unfair.

It is alright. In the future, If push comes to shove, I have some REALLY spicy ones of him. When you play with fire, sometimes ...
 

Attachments

  • dumper.jpg
    dumper.jpg
    87.5 KB · Views: 499
Here is another prototype from Feastrex . . . sounds very good, apparently. Width is 335mm, depth is 335mm at the top and 390 at the bottom, and the overall height is 1025‚�‚�.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


-- Chris
 
Ahoy! yar there be the....

D5e Type I shown in the cabinet.

The inside is simply hollow. So it is a "triple port" single chamber cabinet.

BTW, as an update on the specs, I have been on the phone with Mr. Keith Larson recently and he has given me immense guidance and training, and informed me of many of the tradeoffs on the journey to make some reliable, useful measurements.

His level of customer service is simply stunning.

Again, first we will start with the basics, T/S parameters via the WT2 function, as for scientific interest, these specs are confirmable very easily by everyone "in the field." Later, we will work towards high power testing and sealed box VAS measurements of the more advanced WTPRO to start looking a bit further inside the driver's behavior with Mr. Larson's and everyone else's guidance and advice.

Also, before I forget, Mr. Teramoto has asked me to let everyone know that strictly speaking it may not be appropriate to refer to the standard Feastrex enclosure as an MLTL enclosure. That appellation was first applied by Chris Witmer for reasons that are understandable: there is no denying that the enclosure bears a superficial resemblance to some fairly orthodox MLTL designs. But the enclosure was not arrived at through the application of any of the theory or calculations that are usually involved in the creation of an MLTL enclosure. Rather, it evolved through a long process of cut-and-try experimentation (I asked him how many different iterations it went though, but I think he lost count . . .) guided by the horse sense that comes from many years of experience building enclosures -- especially on the part of the enclosure manufacturer who collaborated with Feastrex on it. Given the similarity of appearance, it is likely that there are indeed points in common with MLTL enclosures, but to call it an MLTL enclosure might tend to obscure the fact that there are also likely to be at least some significant differences as well. Thus Mr. Teramoto thinks it would probably be better to start calling it a "tall ported enclosure."

My personal opinion is that I tend to regard every speaker design as containing a certain set of tradeoffs. "Pick your poison," a dizzying choice, especially among the alphabet soup of TL types. But with enough tweaking, willingness to make mistakes and to and learn from them (and learn to live with them), and thinking outside of the box that we are building, most cabinet design types have a significant amount of musical potential. For someone like me, I am completely happy in life if I can apply myself to the grand communal cause of "unlocking the musical potential" from any sort of object. So far, I am incredibly encouraged by working with Feastrex as it appears that by biting off a bit more than I can chew in my current stage of development as an audio enthusiast, I will be forced to simply stretch my jaws.

A while ago, I was asked to tell everyone what I have been up to at Feastrex. To say that this apprenticeship has been exciting (and simultaneously difficult) for me so far is a complete understatement. The other day I started working start to finish on my first set of cones with Mr. Teramoto's attentive guidance. By starting this 2 week process, Mr. Teramoto informed me jokingly that I had just "set one foot in hell." Indeed, it is such and extreme undertaking that it likely contains parts of heaven and hell. He tells me frequently to "meditate on nature" while doing all the tedious and delicate assembly work. "Hell" probably comes from the fact that I will be waking up in the middle of the night from time to time, further obsessing about cone construction... "Nature is thinking so that I can be making nature sound." (If that sort of "Japenglish" starts to make sense, you know you have been in Japan too long . . . )

I should note that the fact that I have started this process hardly means that from here on out, I will be making any significant portion of Feastrex's cone output. As even my slightest of mistakes as a trainee makes the units unfit to sell. As one might imagine, QC for drivers of Feastrex's pedigree is the absolute first priority. Conceivably, it might even be years before I can get a handle on everything to the point where I can be entrusted with the sort of start-to-finish building of drivers that Mr. Teramoto is doing now.

Back on the topic of cabinets for Feastrex drivers, it is my understanding that people are definitely encouraged to come up with their own designs, and to excersize their creativity. The recommended tall ported enclosure could be considered to be a good starting point and reference for a speaker designer wishing to come up with their own unique Feastrex cabinet. Regardless of whether one decides to build upon that design or move away from it into another philosophical direction, the standard enclosure needs to be part of any would-be designer's initial frame of reference. Some people consider the looks to be rather plain, but with regard to function, from an end user's standpoint, the recommended cabinets are great because when well built they sound quite surprisingly and even amazingly good, letting the speaker driver do most of the "speaking" and they do not dominate the room visually.

Also, as a side note, I was wondering if anyone had ever tried to shoehorn any sort of Feastrex driver inside a Cain and Cain Abby, for instance? If so, what were the results?

Thanks,

Clark

-Feastex.com: IBI Co. Ltd. Aesthetics Development Division

P.S... been working on some photography for a new website, here is an experimental photo. lemme know what you all think!
 

Attachments

  • 5inchfront.jpg
    5inchfront.jpg
    96.7 KB · Views: 1,095
Re: Ahoy! yar there be the....

Hi Clark,

Forgot to thank you for the gen. on the wood. So, many thanks mate. It's much appreciated & is something I'll be exploring over the next few months. :)

blumenco said:
Also, before I forget, Mr. Teramoto has asked me to let everyone know that strictly speaking it may not be appropriate to refer to the standard Feastrex enclosure as an MLTL enclosure. That appellation was first applied by Chris Witmer for reasons that are understandable: there is no denying that the enclosure bears a superficial resemblance to some fairly orthodox MLTL designs. But the enclosure was not arrived at through the application of any of the theory or calculations that are usually involved in the creation of an MLTL enclosure. Rather, it evolved through a long process of cut-and-try experimentation (I asked him how many different iterations it went though, but I think he lost count . . .) guided by the horse sense that comes from many years of experience building enclosures -- especially on the part of the enclosure manufacturer who collaborated with Feastrex on it. Given the similarity of appearance, it is likely that there are indeed points in common with MLTL enclosures, but to call it an MLTL enclosure might tend to obscure the fact that there are also likely to be at least some significant differences as well. Thus Mr. Teramoto thinks it would probably be better to start calling it a "tall ported enclosure."

But that is exactly what an MLTL is. The method by which you create one (for e.g. applied math or cut & try experimentation) is neither here nor there. The term describes a cabinet type, not a design proceedure.

blumenco said:
Also, as a side note, I was wondering if anyone had ever tried to shoehorn any sort of Feastrex driver inside a Cain and Cain Abby, for instance? If so, what were the results?

Now that's an Interesting Thought. A TQWT for these could be very nice. GM has a folded Weems pipe in the works, & I've thought about an unfolded TQWT for them for a while but I never took it any further; partly becuse I get this feeling that Mr Teramoto doesn't approve of anything I design, so it'd be a waste of time, but mainly because of that huge motor, which will partially choke the pipe & potentially may play havoc with the taper & tuning. The Abby, with that thick suprabaffle, is in a better position than others, as the driver will be spaced out a bit from the cabinet. Be worth a try I reckon.
 
Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.