The BIB calculator yields a rather nice box for the D9:
L=106 in
Sm= 168 in^2
Zd= 23
That puts box width visually just right for a 9 inch driver (just under 11 inches) and puts the driver 37 inches off the floor.
The major hang up is depth behind the driver (only 3 inches) and the depth of the driver (nearly 7 inches).
Sean
L=106 in
Sm= 168 in^2
Zd= 23
That puts box width visually just right for a 9 inch driver (just under 11 inches) and puts the driver 37 inches off the floor.
The major hang up is depth behind the driver (only 3 inches) and the depth of the driver (nearly 7 inches).
Sean
The BIB is a pipe-horn with a sloping internal baffle. What Sean means is that there's only 3in of clearance between the front baffle and the internal baffle, and as the driver is ~7in deep, it won't fit. That's why I didn't bother, though you could always add a chamber on the side & vent sideways into the cabinet.
Have you ever been kissed & kneed in the joy dept. by Scarlett?
Have you ever been kissed & kneed in the joy dept. by Scarlett?
No, but I was once tackled in tall grass by the South Dakota high school girls sprinting champion, who looked a lot like Scarlett, but with about an extra 10 kilos of pure muscle, and she was not about to take no for an answer.
To bring this back on topic, this may be a very dumb question, but would the BIB enclosure work with the motor passed right through the slanting panel, or is that going to be a royal pain in the BIB?
To bring this back on topic, this may be a very dumb question, but would the BIB enclosure work with the motor passed right through the slanting panel, or is that going to be a royal pain in the BIB?
Decoupling the Feastrex drivers from the front baffle
The Feastrex drivers definitely like to be decoupled from the front baffle. I assume this is true of drivers in general, but it is worth the effort to do it with the Feastrex drivers.
1) You need an enclosure that permits access from the rear -- there must be a door in the back of the enclosure that can be screwed down.
2) Cut from a rigid plank of hard wood (hickory, oak, maple, etc., come to mind) a piece that can be as wide as the back of the yoke (narrower is okay too), and must as long as the inside of he enclosure is wide. This will serve as a crossbar.
3) In the very center of the crossbar, drill a hole through which the yoke bolt hole can be bolted into the back of the driver.
4) Be sure to use a hefty plate washer with the bolt mentioned in 3). You don't want to be crushing the wood, and the plate washer will spread the force over a larger area.
5) Along the same center line as the center hole, also drill one hole into each end of the crossbar. Smaller bolts/screws will go through these holes into mount studs that will later be attached to the walls of the enclosure.
6) Get six thin plate washers to use as spacers between the driver frame and the front baffle.
7) Temporarily mount the driver on the front baffle, placing the six thin plate washers between the driver and the baffle. The driver mounting screws should be snug but don't need to be extremely tight. The driver is now secured, but raised up from the height of the baffle by the height of the six washers.
8) Through the open door in the rear of the cabinet, bolt the crossbar to the back face of the yoke. PLEASE NOTE THE DEPTH of the hole you are screwing into and make sure the bolt will not be colliding with the metal visible at the bottom of the bolt hole -- that is the driver's alnico magnet and you don't want to be pushing into that with the bolt!
9) Now you can use the ends of the crossbar to align the mounting studs to the walls of the enclosure. These mounting studs should be both glued and screwed into the walls of the enclosure.
10) While you are waiting for the glue on the mounting studs to dry, you can disassemble the crossbar and remove the driver from the enclosure.
11) The six washers that you placed between the driver and baffle will no longer be needed.
12) When you do final mounting of the driver the driver will be firmly supported by the crossbar, and the crossbar will be firmly supported by the mounting studs on the side walls of the enclosure, and there will be a gap between the driver frame and the front face of the baffle approximately equal to the thickness of those six washers.
13) For a ported enclosure, the above arrangemet is fine. For a passive radiator, it may be necessary to use something to create an air seal in that gap. The same is true for any sealed enclosure.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The Feastrex drivers definitely like to be decoupled from the front baffle. I assume this is true of drivers in general, but it is worth the effort to do it with the Feastrex drivers.
1) You need an enclosure that permits access from the rear -- there must be a door in the back of the enclosure that can be screwed down.
2) Cut from a rigid plank of hard wood (hickory, oak, maple, etc., come to mind) a piece that can be as wide as the back of the yoke (narrower is okay too), and must as long as the inside of he enclosure is wide. This will serve as a crossbar.
3) In the very center of the crossbar, drill a hole through which the yoke bolt hole can be bolted into the back of the driver.
4) Be sure to use a hefty plate washer with the bolt mentioned in 3). You don't want to be crushing the wood, and the plate washer will spread the force over a larger area.
5) Along the same center line as the center hole, also drill one hole into each end of the crossbar. Smaller bolts/screws will go through these holes into mount studs that will later be attached to the walls of the enclosure.
6) Get six thin plate washers to use as spacers between the driver frame and the front baffle.
7) Temporarily mount the driver on the front baffle, placing the six thin plate washers between the driver and the baffle. The driver mounting screws should be snug but don't need to be extremely tight. The driver is now secured, but raised up from the height of the baffle by the height of the six washers.
8) Through the open door in the rear of the cabinet, bolt the crossbar to the back face of the yoke. PLEASE NOTE THE DEPTH of the hole you are screwing into and make sure the bolt will not be colliding with the metal visible at the bottom of the bolt hole -- that is the driver's alnico magnet and you don't want to be pushing into that with the bolt!
9) Now you can use the ends of the crossbar to align the mounting studs to the walls of the enclosure. These mounting studs should be both glued and screwed into the walls of the enclosure.
10) While you are waiting for the glue on the mounting studs to dry, you can disassemble the crossbar and remove the driver from the enclosure.
11) The six washers that you placed between the driver and baffle will no longer be needed.
12) When you do final mounting of the driver the driver will be firmly supported by the crossbar, and the crossbar will be firmly supported by the mounting studs on the side walls of the enclosure, and there will be a gap between the driver frame and the front face of the baffle approximately equal to the thickness of those six washers.
13) For a ported enclosure, the above arrangemet is fine. For a passive radiator, it may be necessary to use something to create an air seal in that gap. The same is true for any sealed enclosure.
And here's a possibly useful box of the same type as I suggested above (reflex box with a massively flared vent) for the D5nf.
Cabinet is 6 1/2in wide, 10in deep. Upper chamber is 14in tall. Slot 1in deep & 3/4in thick firing down into a 15in tall flared vent. Strike-plate starts 2in down from the slot. Again, very much like the CAD render of SuziChang by Dave shown above. All dimensions given are internal BTW.
Re the BIB, I'd say it'd be more trouble than it'd be worth to try doing that -it's a horn, so you don't want to be muching up the airflow / expansion if possible.
Cabinet is 6 1/2in wide, 10in deep. Upper chamber is 14in tall. Slot 1in deep & 3/4in thick firing down into a 15in tall flared vent. Strike-plate starts 2in down from the slot. Again, very much like the CAD render of SuziChang by Dave shown above. All dimensions given are internal BTW.
Re the BIB, I'd say it'd be more trouble than it'd be worth to try doing that -it's a horn, so you don't want to be muching up the airflow / expansion if possible.
Attachments
Just to quickly stress (I'm speaking in general terms): the boxes above like everything I do on the forums are purely DIY designs, & for individual use only. They're created using propriety software licensed to me by Martin King & any commercial use requires a license from Martin. I've been meaning to mention this for a while, & never got around to it, for which I owe Martin an apology. This seemed like as good a time as any.
Scott
Scott
Thanks for pointing that out.
'For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer is worthy of his wages.'
Martin King has treaded out a lot of grain, but has been muzzled too often by those who have benefited from his labors. The best driver in the world still needs a proper enclosure to achieve its full potential. Starve the ox and nobody gets any grain.
-- Chris
'For the Scripture says, “You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain,” and, “The laborer is worthy of his wages.'
Martin King has treaded out a lot of grain, but has been muzzled too often by those who have benefited from his labors. The best driver in the world still needs a proper enclosure to achieve its full potential. Starve the ox and nobody gets any grain.
-- Chris
Agreed 100% Martin's work and contributions have been a massive benefit to the audio community & it would be considerably worse off without him.
BTW, these cab designs will ultimately find a home with their Spawn cousins (they're intended to be part of that range) on the frugal-horn site. The larger unit already slots into Chang nicely, no mods needed, like a selection of Fostex / AN etc units.
BTW, these cab designs will ultimately find a home with their Spawn cousins (they're intended to be part of that range) on the frugal-horn site. The larger unit already slots into Chang nicely, no mods needed, like a selection of Fostex / AN etc units.
Chris, thanks for the D5nf dimensions drawing. Do you know the diameter of the basket for cutting through hole? My calipers are not long enough to measure it myself. EDIT: nevermind, I got it. Subtraction - what a concept. hehe
Scottmoose, I am making a cad dwg of your D5nf box described above. When I finish I will post it here so you guys can check if my interpretation is correct.
Thanks,
Rich
Scottmoose, I am making a cad dwg of your D5nf box described above. When I finish I will post it here so you guys can check if my interpretation is correct.
Thanks,
Rich
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I made a drawing to build this, so I am sharing. Can you check it over to make sure it matches your intent? Thanks
Should driver be high as possible on baffle or centered?
All parts solid "one by" (13/16") spruce board
Design name? Design credit? Donation to Martin? Lemme know if you want me to comment the drawing, like "Designed by Scottmoose using software created by Martin King. For DIY only. Not for commercial use. "
I will update the drawing with your comments.
Thanks
Rich
Hi Rich. The diagram is correct, though the slot-vent only needs to be the 3/4in thickness of the build material in length. Front-back it's 1in, vertical, 3/4in. I'd mount the driver-centre 5.75in down from the internal top.
This is one of my Spawn designs & part of the Frugal-horn project (a CAD diagram will appear there in the near future). As such it's free for DIY purposes; commercial use must be discussed with the relevant parties.
If you could add the 'Designed by Scottmoose using software created by Martin J. King' to your diagram, that would be great -thanks for being willing to add that. Always best to cover all bases. We'll think up a name for it too -any suggestions guys?
Speaking for www.frugal-horn.com, which I designed this cabinet for, a small donation to the site is always much appreciated -it helps keep it going (same goes for any of the Spawn boxes). That's purely a voluntary thing DIY builders can do should they wish -we don't request anything, it's there for the community. At the risk of speaking for Martin, should you wish to make a small private donation to him for the software that was used in creating the design, then again, I suspect it will be appreciated. Being a decent bloke, Martin never asks for anything for DIY boxes designed in his software, but I imagine the gesture
This is one of my Spawn designs & part of the Frugal-horn project (a CAD diagram will appear there in the near future). As such it's free for DIY purposes; commercial use must be discussed with the relevant parties.
If you could add the 'Designed by Scottmoose using software created by Martin J. King' to your diagram, that would be great -thanks for being willing to add that. Always best to cover all bases. We'll think up a name for it too -any suggestions guys?
Speaking for www.frugal-horn.com, which I designed this cabinet for, a small donation to the site is always much appreciated -it helps keep it going (same goes for any of the Spawn boxes). That's purely a voluntary thing DIY builders can do should they wish -we don't request anything, it's there for the community. At the risk of speaking for Martin, should you wish to make a small private donation to him for the software that was used in creating the design, then again, I suspect it will be appreciated. Being a decent bloke, Martin never asks for anything for DIY boxes designed in his software, but I imagine the gesture
Drawing edited, see original post above. Refresh (F5) if necessary.
PM with any changes you would like. I intend to incorporate Chris' rear driver mounting scheme as used by Feastrex. Requires removable rear panel, and airtight seal system while still looking good and being easy to make, so that's not happening today.
I nominate the name "MooseFeast 5"
'Peta' types may not appreciate that name... haha
Thanks for the great plan Scott, I hope to get started building it on Monday when kids get back to school. I looked up Martin's quarter-wave.com website, wow, that is some heavy stuff. I see my multi-driver OB design there too. Thanks for the link.
Your Spawn designs are WILD!
Rich
PM with any changes you would like. I intend to incorporate Chris' rear driver mounting scheme as used by Feastrex. Requires removable rear panel, and airtight seal system while still looking good and being easy to make, so that's not happening today.
I nominate the name "MooseFeast 5"
'Peta' types may not appreciate that name... haha
Thanks for the great plan Scott, I hope to get started building it on Monday when kids get back to school. I looked up Martin's quarter-wave.com website, wow, that is some heavy stuff. I see my multi-driver OB design there too.
Thanks for the link.Your Spawn designs are WILD!
Rich
Scottmoose said:
Scott, the link as you wrote it didn't work with my browser because of the comma.
http://www.frugal-horn.com
-- Chris Witmer
If you have a decision to purchase D5nf drivers hinging on the ability to use them in your current enclosures, I would try to beg, borrow, or steal one D5nf unit from somebody to try it out first.
They are much different but the Hasehiro company in Japan makes constant-width horns for a large selection of drivers which they accommodate using a relatively small number of basic templates by adding more layers for some drivers and using fewer layers for other drivers.
I was present when the D5nf was demonstrated in this box and was surprised to see people placing orders for the D5nf drivers in Hasehiro boxes on the spot. I was surprised because even though the D5nf drivers sounded better than many other drivers demonstrated, to my ears the D5nf were not realizing anywhere near their proper potential.
Mr. Teramoto hit upon the main reason immediately. He told the proprietor of Hasehiro, "You have to add more layers -- with this small number of layers the horn throat is overly constricted and the drivers can't move the amount of air that they would normally want to move." The proprietor was surprised because what Mr. Teramoto was specifying was a number of layers that would be appropriate for a much larger driver. Especially with its high Qts of 0.6 (!), the D5nf is comfortably capable of a much larger range of cone movement than most horn-loaded fullranges. So you don't want to overly constrict its throat.
In fact, of all the Feastrex drivers, it is, based on its T/S parameters, the last one that one would intuitively think horn-loading. And yet . . .
http://www.maxxhorn.com/
WITH THE RIGHT HORN DESIGN, I'm quite sure good results can be achieved. I'm just not sure you can pop it into a box designed for a much lower Qts driver and get really ideal results.
Rich Hollyday fell in love with his D5nf units when he heard them playing through Hedlund Horns, which were surely a mismatch in various ways, but one good thing may have been that the larger horn's throat was a good enough match.
Of course, hopefully people more closely connected with the project will give you their opinion, which probably counts for more than mine since they can punch in numbers where I can't, and they have a lot more experience than I do.
-- Chris
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
They are much different but the Hasehiro company in Japan makes constant-width horns for a large selection of drivers which they accommodate using a relatively small number of basic templates by adding more layers for some drivers and using fewer layers for other drivers.
I was present when the D5nf was demonstrated in this box and was surprised to see people placing orders for the D5nf drivers in Hasehiro boxes on the spot. I was surprised because even though the D5nf drivers sounded better than many other drivers demonstrated, to my ears the D5nf were not realizing anywhere near their proper potential.
Mr. Teramoto hit upon the main reason immediately. He told the proprietor of Hasehiro, "You have to add more layers -- with this small number of layers the horn throat is overly constricted and the drivers can't move the amount of air that they would normally want to move." The proprietor was surprised because what Mr. Teramoto was specifying was a number of layers that would be appropriate for a much larger driver. Especially with its high Qts of 0.6 (!), the D5nf is comfortably capable of a much larger range of cone movement than most horn-loaded fullranges. So you don't want to overly constrict its throat.
In fact, of all the Feastrex drivers, it is, based on its T/S parameters, the last one that one would intuitively think horn-loading. And yet . . .
http://www.maxxhorn.com/
WITH THE RIGHT HORN DESIGN, I'm quite sure good results can be achieved. I'm just not sure you can pop it into a box designed for a much lower Qts driver and get really ideal results.
Rich Hollyday fell in love with his D5nf units when he heard them playing through Hedlund Horns, which were surely a mismatch in various ways, but one good thing may have been that the larger horn's throat was a good enough match.
Of course, hopefully people more closely connected with the project will give you their opinion, which probably counts for more than mine since they can punch in numbers where I can't, and they have a lot more experience than I do.
-- Chris
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