UPS Supplies Sonics Question. - Page 2 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > General Interest > Everything Else

Everything Else Anything related to audio / video / electronics etc) BUT remember- we have many new forums where your thread may now fit! .... Parts, Equipment & Tools, Construction Tips, Software Tools......

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10th January 2003, 08:30 AM   #11
diyAudio Senior Member
 
fdegrove's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Belgium
Default UPS AND DOWNS.

Hi,

Quote:
Offline types switchover to invertor operation when input AC fails, and then the invertor stage starts.
Am I to assume you lucky b******s are toying with the online types?

These don't come cheap when bought new though.
For feeding a CDP they seem ideal...it would be nice to know how this compares to standard mains-fed mode soundwise.

Cheers,
__________________
Frank
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th January 2003, 11:34 AM   #12
diyAudio Member
 
mrfeedback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Perth, Australia.
Default B*****d Yes, Lucky ? Hmmmmm...

Frank,
The big one (12kVA) is most definately continuous invertor operation, and in need of AUS$800 in parts.
New price is around AUS$12,000 I am told.
These level of machines are really serious - 3 phase input, huge transformers, capacitor banks, inductors, rectifiers, triacs and extensive controller circuitry, and just plain big throughout.
I do not have schematics yet, and this is one machine where I would prefer to have them - I am fully used to diagnosing and repairing 'flying blind', but the cost of parts if there is a stuff-up in this case frightens me.

The 1200VA one I cadged is a switchover type - offline (as is Peters I think).
I figure on running it from a couple of car batteries to make it suitable for extended invertor operation, and I am as keen as you to hear if it improves my sound, but alas I have to fix it first.
I may also modify it to make it run in continous mode while I am at it.
Peter, your UPS is working - tried it on your Gainclone system yet ?. - Frank's curiosity is burning him up. Only you can save him.

Eric.
__________________
I believe not to believe in any fixed belief system.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th January 2003, 02:19 PM   #13
diyAudio Member
 
Peter Daniel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Send a message via AIM to Peter Daniel
I just tried my UPS with a gainclone. When the UPS is disconnected from mains, the sound lacks definition, everything is fuzzy and I didn't like it.

I had some hard decisions to choose between amp connected directly to the mains and to the UPS (powered from the wall). When using UPS, it seemed to be cleaner overall, with kinda dry vocal and flat, kinda lifeless. When amps is powered directly from mains, it seems like treble exist seperate from the mids and bass, the sound is warmer, more detail in highs, maybe a bit boomy bass, but overall that was my preferrence.

I noticed however, big improvement in powering digital front end through the UPS. There is much more depth and more natural presentation and it improves even more when UPS runs from battery. Totaly opposite to the amp.

It can only mean that there is no clear path in audio, and everything be better checked empirically, instead of talked over.
__________________
www.audiosector.com
“Do something really well. See how much time it takes. It might be a product, a work of art, who knows? Then give it away cheaply, just because you feel that it should not cost so much, even if it took a lot of time and expensive materials to make it.” - JC
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th January 2003, 02:26 PM   #14
diyAudio Member
 
Sparhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Ontario, Canada
Default Re: B*****d Yes, Lucky ? Hmmmmm...

Quote:
Originally posted by mrfeedback
These level of machines are really serious - 3 phase input, huge transformers, capacitor banks, inductors, rectifiers, triacs and extensive controller circuitry, and just plain big throughout.

Serious indeed... We just installed a new UPS system here, which definitely qualifies as "serious". Currently we have two 40KVA modules operating in a redundant configuration, expandable to 4 modules (120KVA, N+1 reduntant). The cost for the current system (2 40KVA modules, parallel/bypass cabinet for 4 modules, and a wrap-around maintenance bypass) was approx. CAD$100,000. The system is housed in its own room, and has some serious power feeding it... Each module has a 3 phase, 208V 150A feed, and the bypass inputs each have 333A feeds, supplied with two parallel runs of #3/0 cable for each phase. It's an impressive system.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th January 2003, 03:23 PM   #15
diyAudio Member
 
mrfeedback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Perth, Australia.
Default Re: Re: B*****d Yes, Lucky ? Hmmmmm...

Quote:
Originally posted by Sparhawk



Serious indeed... We just installed a new UPS system here, which definitely qualifies as "serious". Currently we have two 40KVA modules operating in a redundant configuration, expandable to 4 modules (120KVA, N+1 reduntant). The cost for the current system (2 40KVA modules, parallel/bypass cabinet for 4 modules, and a wrap-around maintenance bypass) was approx. CAD$100,000. The system is housed in its own room, and has some serious power feeding it... Each module has a 3 phase, 208V 150A feed, and the bypass inputs each have 333A feeds, supplied with two parallel runs of #3/0 cable for each phase. It's an impressive system.
You could hang a seriously unplugged live show off that, bigtime.
What are you needing such big backup power capacity for ?.

Eric.
__________________
I believe not to believe in any fixed belief system.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th January 2003, 03:28 PM   #16
UrSv is offline UrSv  Sweden
diyAudio Member
 
UrSv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Sweden
That stuff is pretty much standard in many places where UPSs are really needed. I used to run 3 different 25KVA units backed up in turn by a 250 KW Diesel UPS = Unlimted backup time. After all many computers consume lots of electricity. Our Stratus needed 5 KVA by itself and that was ONE of the servers...

Business was Call-Center for a security company.
__________________
UrSv
Those who say it can't be done should not stop those who are doing it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th January 2003, 03:37 PM   #17
diyAudio Member
 
mrfeedback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Perth, Australia.
Default Mixed Results Eh ?....

Quote:
Originally posted by Peter Daniel
I just tried my UPS with a gainclone. When the UPS is disconnected from mains, the sound lacks definition, everything is fuzzy and I didn't like it.

I had some hard decisions to choose between amp connected directly to the mains and to the UPS (powered from the wall). When using UPS, it seemed to be cleaner overall, with kinda dry vocal and flat, kinda lifeless. When amps is powered directly from mains, it seems like treble exist seperate from the mids and bass, the sound is warmer, more detail in highs, maybe a bit boomy bass, but overall that was my preferrence.

I noticed however, big improvement in powering digital front end through the UPS. There is much more depth and more natural presentation and it improves even more when UPS runs from battery. Totaly opposite to the amp.

It can only mean that there is no clear path in audio, and everything be better checked empirically, instead of talked over.
A heap of experiments are in order, like polarity of mains feed to each component, and terrestrial earthing arrangements when running 'unplugged'.
I need to do more investigation and study, but from what I understand, the output stage of typical UPS is a stepped sinewave, and according to model the number of steps is variable.
Therefore final filtering sounds to be important.
To be sure, I am not clear on this path (partly because I do not have a working UPS yet), but I expect a balanced mains power feed with adequate (or extensive) filtering and dedicated earth stake ought to sound as good as it can - to be checked empirically.
Thanks Peter for trying the initial experiments.

Eric.
__________________
I believe not to believe in any fixed belief system.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th January 2003, 03:46 PM   #18
diyAudio Member
 
Sparhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Ontario, Canada
Default Re: Re: Re: B*****d Yes, Lucky ? Hmmmmm...

Quote:
Originally posted by mrfeedback

You could hang a seriously unplugged live show off that, bigtime.
What are you needing such big backup power capacity for ?.
Eric.
It is for our new data centre. Besides housing all our own equipment, we also run a colocation business. A full equipment rack at maximum density can require 4-5KW. Our current room can accomodate around 40 racks... Most of them won't be nearly this dense, though. 120KVA should be adequate for the full room.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th January 2003, 03:48 PM   #19
diyAudio Member
 
Sparhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Ontario, Canada
Quote:
Originally posted by UrSv
That stuff is pretty much standard in many places where UPSs are really needed. I used to run 3 different 25KVA units backed up in turn by a 250 KW Diesel UPS = Unlimted backup time. After all many computers consume lots of electricity. Our Stratus needed 5 KVA by itself and that was ONE of the servers...

Business was Call-Center for a security company.
I forgot to mention, we have a 350KVA generator as well. The UPS system is only required for about 30 seconds while the generator gets up to speed. A lot of money invested, just for that short run time.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th January 2003, 04:10 PM   #20
diyAudio Member
 
mrfeedback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Perth, Australia.
Default Mission Critical UPS By The Sound....

Trunk telephone exchanges that I used to work in had battery istallations that would not fit in most peoples loungerooms, and diesel generators on the roof.
DC supply makes things much simpler.

Eric.
__________________
I believe not to believe in any fixed belief system.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hypex question - Supply voltage influence on sonics avian Class D 0 3rd April 2009 02:49 PM
Noob Question: Hooking up 2 positive Linear power supplies for +- output? hifimaker Parts 1 16th March 2007 12:57 AM
Grounding with Multiple Power supplies question?? Minion Solid State 12 30th December 2006 11:38 PM
question about regulated supplies. martyh Chip Amps 0 11th January 2005 01:52 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 04:57 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2