way off topic / Oppo mods or not
pjpoes / Mpoes: " ... [after cap replacement mods to the Oppo player,] ... I sorta stopped because I began wondering if it was worth my effort and expense, when for not much money I could buy a better outboard dac, and use that. ..."
As a point of interest, how would you connect this player to an "outboard" DAC ?? Through the SPDIF optical ... some other digital or analog connection internally?? Strip the disc mechanizm and associated outta the case and roll your own??
Perhaps I can get you to give some more details in a seperate thread ... it appears you are the first to pass through this particular part of the forest and a do's and don'ts, turn left here kind of guide may be in order.
Thanks for the tips of souping up the built in DAC ... I am interested in keeping the Cypress 24 bit chip and seeing how much is required to max it out, quality wise.
FYI: you may already know this but there is a fairly simple code string that can be entered into the setup routine of these players that will let them play Zone 2 PAL videos as well as all that other stuff ... I'll pass it along under another topic if you need it. (It turns out that the firmware is capable, but for US sales the Oppo folks had to disable the PAL decode scenario ... cause of folks like Sony, et al, wanting to maintain their near monopoly on North American video content.)
pjpoes / Mpoes: " ... [after cap replacement mods to the Oppo player,] ... I sorta stopped because I began wondering if it was worth my effort and expense, when for not much money I could buy a better outboard dac, and use that. ..."
As a point of interest, how would you connect this player to an "outboard" DAC ?? Through the SPDIF optical ... some other digital or analog connection internally?? Strip the disc mechanizm and associated outta the case and roll your own??
Perhaps I can get you to give some more details in a seperate thread ... it appears you are the first to pass through this particular part of the forest and a do's and don'ts, turn left here kind of guide may be in order.
Thanks for the tips of souping up the built in DAC ... I am interested in keeping the Cypress 24 bit chip and seeing how much is required to max it out, quality wise.
FYI: you may already know this but there is a fairly simple code string that can be entered into the setup routine of these players that will let them play Zone 2 PAL videos as well as all that other stuff ... I'll pass it along under another topic if you need it. (It turns out that the firmware is capable, but for US sales the Oppo folks had to disable the PAL decode scenario ... cause of folks like Sony, et al, wanting to maintain their near monopoly on North American video content.)
pjpoes: " ... 3) rebuilding my subwoofer into a 4.5 cubic foot ported box ..."
Just finished referbing a ~ 3.1 cuft sealed Cerwin Vega box, replaced w/Pyle Driver and Class-D built in ~ 60 watt = I don't know how I managed to live without it = suppliments Maggie mains ( http://www.magnepan.com/model_MMG )
"4) Building new Equipment stands with T-Slot and butcher block ..."
Just ordered rack mount hardware for my "home theater" console this week = converting everything to 19" hangers.
"8) Building a new center channel ..."
My "store bought" unit needs help = sounds too much like a beer can = your choice of center channel drivers, size / cu.ft., would be of interest. (Check this out: http://www.magnepan.com/img/models/MMGW_C_01.jpg )
Just finished referbing a ~ 3.1 cuft sealed Cerwin Vega box, replaced w/Pyle Driver and Class-D built in ~ 60 watt = I don't know how I managed to live without it = suppliments Maggie mains ( http://www.magnepan.com/model_MMG )
"4) Building new Equipment stands with T-Slot and butcher block ..."
Just ordered rack mount hardware for my "home theater" console this week = converting everything to 19" hangers.
"8) Building a new center channel ..."
My "store bought" unit needs help = sounds too much like a beer can = your choice of center channel drivers, size / cu.ft., would be of interest. (Check this out: http://www.magnepan.com/img/models/MMGW_C_01.jpg )
I don't know how good a job I did with my Oppo mods, I basicly asked someone else how to go about it, and he made some suggestions from photos I sent him. I found the point where it left the player, followed that back, and found a connection point which bypassed a bunch of crap including the 75ohm resistor. I then replaced that with a cadock resistor, and reconected it to a 75ohm Canare connector. I use Coaxial instead of optical as I have been told it offers lower jitter. To be honost, I've never noticed a huge difference.
As for my center channel recomendations. I agree that a lot of center channels seem to sound cupped and tinny. I think thats what you mean by bear can. One recomendation I have is to make sure its overall quality is easily as good as that of your main speakers, but only capable of bass down to say 80-100hz or so. If you have a setup that supports it, I think a center channel should be oriented vertically like the main speakers, rather than layed horizontally. However, that is rarely possible. A common option is to have a vertically oriented midrange tweeter, with midbass drivers on each side.
Another thing that can have a large impact on a center channels sound, in my experience, is how its placed. If you simply lay it on top of the tv, you have the television below for it to reflect off of. A very hard reflective surface with unknown resonances. If you place it on the same shelf the tv sits on, it now is reflecting off both the shelf right below it, and the tv above it. The worst location I see is when people hide them into nooks below or above the tv, creating small wooden shelves hanging out over every edge. I found that placing acoustic foam around the front as well as resting the center on the foam made a noticable difference in the sound. It helped remove some of the cupped quality. However I built a center using the HiVi midrange tweeter combo, because I thought it was a cool driver, and I not regret it. It's a nasty sounding combination in my opinion. For myself I will rebuild using Focal Midbass drivers and tweeters, as they match my main speakers. I have to like the sound of focal drivers when implimented correctly. However, I see you have magnepan, and I really can't say what is right for you. Speakers like yours have a very unique sound that I have never found blends well with other types of speakers.
For simply the best sounding inexpensive drivers to make a center channel out of, I would recomend the Dayton Refrence series drivers and a good Seas tweeter. However, if you can find and afford one just fine, I would really consider a matching Magnepan Center, as nothing will match better than a speaker of the same design.
As for my center channel recomendations. I agree that a lot of center channels seem to sound cupped and tinny. I think thats what you mean by bear can. One recomendation I have is to make sure its overall quality is easily as good as that of your main speakers, but only capable of bass down to say 80-100hz or so. If you have a setup that supports it, I think a center channel should be oriented vertically like the main speakers, rather than layed horizontally. However, that is rarely possible. A common option is to have a vertically oriented midrange tweeter, with midbass drivers on each side.
Another thing that can have a large impact on a center channels sound, in my experience, is how its placed. If you simply lay it on top of the tv, you have the television below for it to reflect off of. A very hard reflective surface with unknown resonances. If you place it on the same shelf the tv sits on, it now is reflecting off both the shelf right below it, and the tv above it. The worst location I see is when people hide them into nooks below or above the tv, creating small wooden shelves hanging out over every edge. I found that placing acoustic foam around the front as well as resting the center on the foam made a noticable difference in the sound. It helped remove some of the cupped quality. However I built a center using the HiVi midrange tweeter combo, because I thought it was a cool driver, and I not regret it. It's a nasty sounding combination in my opinion. For myself I will rebuild using Focal Midbass drivers and tweeters, as they match my main speakers. I have to like the sound of focal drivers when implimented correctly. However, I see you have magnepan, and I really can't say what is right for you. Speakers like yours have a very unique sound that I have never found blends well with other types of speakers.
For simply the best sounding inexpensive drivers to make a center channel out of, I would recomend the Dayton Refrence series drivers and a good Seas tweeter. However, if you can find and afford one just fine, I would really consider a matching Magnepan Center, as nothing will match better than a speaker of the same design.
pjpoes: " ... One recomendation I have is to make sure its overall quality is easily as good as that of your main speakers, but only capable of bass down to say 80-100hz or so. ..."
My center box looks a lot like this one: http://www.gr-research.com/kits/av2.shtm ... I do have it laying on its side (directly under the display).
I have a couple of "spare" GR-Research drivers of about the right size ( http://www.gr-research.com/drivers/m130.shtm ). I'll stick 'em in the box and see if it helps = Thanks for the tip, I'll try it, sideways and vertical ...
" ... The worst location I see is when people hide them into nooks below or above the tv, creating small wooden shelves hanging out over every edge. I found that placing acoustic foam around the front as well as resting the center on the foam made a noticable difference in the sound. It helped remove some of the cupped quality. ..."
Wow, what a great tip!! I'll have to give this some thought ... I got a whole bunch of foam, some is acoustic grade, some is just futon foam (futon? footon? phoo-tune?) ... I'll mix and match and try some serious relocations for the center unit.
...
" ... I use Coaxial instead of optical as I have been told it offers lower jitter. To be honost, I've never noticed a huge difference. ..."
I have my Oppo connected up with both, coaxial SPDIF and through the 24bit DAC via the six-port "surround" RCA's ... The six-channel Dolby 5.1 output sounds better (much, much, noticable much better, IMOP), even when setting the pre-amp to play "stereo only" through the mains. Switching back and forth = significant difference, and not just in output levels. ( My favorite optical test disc: http://classicrecords.com/catalog/store/detail.cfm?sku=HDAD-2008 = almost as good as the vinyl.
...)
I did add some snubbing caps to the +/- 12 VDC at the power connection in the DAC board = no noticable difference. I will get some polystyrene caps of decent size (4 uF or bigger) and give that a try as well.
...
" ... It's a nasty sounding combination in my opinion. ..." I assume you don't mean nasty in the Huey Lewis sense = "Sometimes Bad Is Bad" ?
" ... I see you have magnepan, and I really can't say what is right for you. ... "
I'm not too sure what's right, either. Those big, flat planars sound fantastic ... unless I park 'em next to a reflective wall ... then "Sometimes Bad Is Bad". These puppies have been a royal pain to get into proper positioning. They sound super in the middle of our warehouse. I have a subwoofer that alternately overpowers 'em when they are placed close to a reflective wall, then the woofer sounds anemic when the Maggies are placed out in the middle of the listening room = balance is a problem, but not nearly so much as placing the Maggies juuust right. I plan on spending yet another weekend with the SPL meter and the pink noise generator trying to figure out yet another combination in relation to your suggestions, etc.
Some "Pictures of my stuff" = The old, home made mains: http://3dotaudio.com/waterputty/speaker10.jpg
"Is this game fun or what?" - Coach Mariuchi to QB Elvis Grebeck.
My center box looks a lot like this one: http://www.gr-research.com/kits/av2.shtm ... I do have it laying on its side (directly under the display).
I have a couple of "spare" GR-Research drivers of about the right size ( http://www.gr-research.com/drivers/m130.shtm ). I'll stick 'em in the box and see if it helps = Thanks for the tip, I'll try it, sideways and vertical ...
" ... The worst location I see is when people hide them into nooks below or above the tv, creating small wooden shelves hanging out over every edge. I found that placing acoustic foam around the front as well as resting the center on the foam made a noticable difference in the sound. It helped remove some of the cupped quality. ..."
Wow, what a great tip!! I'll have to give this some thought ... I got a whole bunch of foam, some is acoustic grade, some is just futon foam (futon? footon? phoo-tune?) ... I'll mix and match and try some serious relocations for the center unit.
...
" ... I use Coaxial instead of optical as I have been told it offers lower jitter. To be honost, I've never noticed a huge difference. ..."
I have my Oppo connected up with both, coaxial SPDIF and through the 24bit DAC via the six-port "surround" RCA's ... The six-channel Dolby 5.1 output sounds better (much, much, noticable much better, IMOP), even when setting the pre-amp to play "stereo only" through the mains. Switching back and forth = significant difference, and not just in output levels. ( My favorite optical test disc: http://classicrecords.com/catalog/store/detail.cfm?sku=HDAD-2008 = almost as good as the vinyl.
...)I did add some snubbing caps to the +/- 12 VDC at the power connection in the DAC board = no noticable difference. I will get some polystyrene caps of decent size (4 uF or bigger) and give that a try as well.
...
" ... It's a nasty sounding combination in my opinion. ..." I assume you don't mean nasty in the Huey Lewis sense = "Sometimes Bad Is Bad" ?
" ... I see you have magnepan, and I really can't say what is right for you. ... "
I'm not too sure what's right, either. Those big, flat planars sound fantastic ... unless I park 'em next to a reflective wall ... then "Sometimes Bad Is Bad". These puppies have been a royal pain to get into proper positioning. They sound super in the middle of our warehouse. I have a subwoofer that alternately overpowers 'em when they are placed close to a reflective wall, then the woofer sounds anemic when the Maggies are placed out in the middle of the listening room = balance is a problem, but not nearly so much as placing the Maggies juuust right. I plan on spending yet another weekend with the SPL meter and the pink noise generator trying to figure out yet another combination in relation to your suggestions, etc.
Some "Pictures of my stuff" = The old, home made mains: http://3dotaudio.com/waterputty/speaker10.jpg
"Is this game fun or what?" - Coach Mariuchi to QB Elvis Grebeck.
Hey Sorry, I typed this all very quickly, and I don't proof read, I realized it didn't come out clear. I am very unhappy with the HiVi drivers I bought, and I would not recomend them. The Midrange tweeter combo did not sound as I expected and no crossover tuning I have tried has yet fixed it. I'm sure someone with more experience and better measuring tools could come up with a better crossover design that offers a flatter response, however it still won't match my main speakers. None the less, I have heard others talk about the poor sound of the Hivi midrange, so I'm not really suprised by the results I got. The Midbass drivers ended up sounding like they have chewing gum in their mouths, slow, mushy, just not what I wanted.
Durring dynamic peaks in movies I think voices sound compressed, and the action seems to shrink. Mind you this is with a 12" subwoofer and a 500 watt amp, my main Focal based speakers, and a center channel with two 6.5" midbass drivers, a 2" midrange, and a 1" tweeter. The Center is getting 370 watts rms of Solid state power, so I can't imagine its a problem with power, and the center channel isn't exactly a small design.
I was debating starting a new Room acoustics thread because I have recently been posting quite a bit about bass traps and other things. It has me looking into sources for some materials, and I'm starting to wonder if a single thread that covers all the issues might be good. Ebay has lots of sources for acoustic foam, I found other sources for the Owens Corning Rockwool fiberglass insulation, fabric, etc. Seems like some people might like those resources centralized.
Oh by the way, I'm a fan of the GR Research drivers for the money. I think they used to have a midbass for under 20 dollars that was a steal. I built a set of speakers for my now 16 year old sister, far away the best speakers she had ever heard. Given my total cost of maybe 100-120 dollars, they seriously impressed me.
Durring dynamic peaks in movies I think voices sound compressed, and the action seems to shrink. Mind you this is with a 12" subwoofer and a 500 watt amp, my main Focal based speakers, and a center channel with two 6.5" midbass drivers, a 2" midrange, and a 1" tweeter. The Center is getting 370 watts rms of Solid state power, so I can't imagine its a problem with power, and the center channel isn't exactly a small design.
I was debating starting a new Room acoustics thread because I have recently been posting quite a bit about bass traps and other things. It has me looking into sources for some materials, and I'm starting to wonder if a single thread that covers all the issues might be good. Ebay has lots of sources for acoustic foam, I found other sources for the Owens Corning Rockwool fiberglass insulation, fabric, etc. Seems like some people might like those resources centralized.
Oh by the way, I'm a fan of the GR Research drivers for the money. I think they used to have a midbass for under 20 dollars that was a steal. I built a set of speakers for my now 16 year old sister, far away the best speakers she had ever heard. Given my total cost of maybe 100-120 dollars, they seriously impressed me.
pjpoes: " ... I am very unhappy with the HiVi drivers I bought ..."
... it happens = flea market fodder ...
I used some of these [as pictured in that "home brew" box] = http://www.gr-research.com/drivers/gr_t2.shtm ... and these = http://www.gr-research.com/drivers/m130.shtm ... ~+91 db [+/- 3db] across 1k thru 20k+ = about as flat as any w/crossover centered around 3k. Stuffed in the boxes, response is very close to this = http://www.gr-research.com/images/AV-1crossover.jpg . These drivers are box size sensitive, of course = 0.9 to 1.3 cuft w/o stuffin'. Results are more than satisfactory above 200 Hz. = very nice and lots of guts for vocals, but I never was able to get the bass woofers (pictured below) to come up to spec. I am going to try bi-amping these boxes soon as I finish a set of DIY 50 watt Class-D amps and add 'em to the system (now approaching ~ 150 watts per channel, 6 channels). (GR-Research is quite forthcoming with tech help, but I now recommend their enclosures rather than "home brew" boxes.)
" ... dynamic peaks in movies ... compressed ... with a 12" subwoofer and a 500 watt amp ... and a center channel with two 6.5" midbass drivers, a 2" midrange, and a 1" tweeter. ... I was debating starting a new Room acoustics thread ... "
There are funny things happening with some listening rooms. My room has a complex ceiling and high back wall to 16', open below @ 8' into a larger kitchen/dining area. Any speaker set I place in the listening area has to deal with the back and side walls = highly reflective = lots of "soft spots" and a few "hard spots" at various frequencies. Those el-cheapo Radio Shack SPL meters are loads of fun to play around with, testing various combos and positionings of various types, speakers & baffles & treatment technics. Add a decent way to genereate "pink noise" ... or just play "Dark Side of the Moon" ... he, he, he .... (Occasionally those high end audio shops have a use = their tech support can sometimes ask-adently show you a combination that will change your life for the better. I buy some stuff from 'em [even when I could DIY build it] just to take advantage of the knowledge base. I'm an old dog, and I now know that I don't always know ... no?)
http://3dotaudio.com/waterputty/speaker8.jpg (buildin' some)
http://3dotaudio.com/waterputty/speaker9.jpg (almost there)
http://3dotaudio.com/waterputty/speaker10.jpg (testin' the waters)
http://3dotaudio.com/waterputty/speaker11.jpg (testin' various combos & positionings)
http://3dotaudio.com/waterputty/speaker12.jpg ( , but not quite right )
... it happens = flea market fodder ... I used some of these [as pictured in that "home brew" box] = http://www.gr-research.com/drivers/gr_t2.shtm ... and these = http://www.gr-research.com/drivers/m130.shtm ... ~+91 db [+/- 3db] across 1k thru 20k+ = about as flat as any w/crossover centered around 3k. Stuffed in the boxes, response is very close to this = http://www.gr-research.com/images/AV-1crossover.jpg . These drivers are box size sensitive, of course = 0.9 to 1.3 cuft w/o stuffin'. Results are more than satisfactory above 200 Hz. = very nice and lots of guts for vocals, but I never was able to get the bass woofers (pictured below) to come up to spec. I am going to try bi-amping these boxes soon as I finish a set of DIY 50 watt Class-D amps and add 'em to the system (now approaching ~ 150 watts per channel, 6 channels). (GR-Research is quite forthcoming with tech help, but I now recommend their enclosures rather than "home brew" boxes.)
" ... dynamic peaks in movies ... compressed ... with a 12" subwoofer and a 500 watt amp ... and a center channel with two 6.5" midbass drivers, a 2" midrange, and a 1" tweeter. ... I was debating starting a new Room acoustics thread ... "
There are funny things happening with some listening rooms. My room has a complex ceiling and high back wall to 16', open below @ 8' into a larger kitchen/dining area. Any speaker set I place in the listening area has to deal with the back and side walls = highly reflective = lots of "soft spots" and a few "hard spots" at various frequencies. Those el-cheapo Radio Shack SPL meters are loads of fun to play around with, testing various combos and positionings of various types, speakers & baffles & treatment technics. Add a decent way to genereate "pink noise" ... or just play "Dark Side of the Moon" ... he, he, he .... (Occasionally those high end audio shops have a use = their tech support can sometimes ask-adently show you a combination that will change your life for the better. I buy some stuff from 'em [even when I could DIY build it] just to take advantage of the knowledge base. I'm an old dog, and I now know that I don't always know ... no?)
http://3dotaudio.com/waterputty/speaker8.jpg (buildin' some)
http://3dotaudio.com/waterputty/speaker9.jpg (almost there)
http://3dotaudio.com/waterputty/speaker10.jpg (testin' the waters)
http://3dotaudio.com/waterputty/speaker11.jpg (testin' various combos & positionings)
http://3dotaudio.com/waterputty/speaker12.jpg (
, but not quite right )Yeah I hear ya on that. Room acoustics are a strange thing. In my new room I'm setting up I have only 1 actual corner. The other corners all have openings at them. I'm not yet sure how this will effect sound, will have to take some RTA measurements. I have the Behringer eq which I use as an RTA, and I have my computer as well, btu haven't gotten that working right yet.
I plan on making a few room acoustics treatments to try. I have various pieces of acoustic foam, egg crate, wedges, plain acoustic grade polyurethane foam, etc. However I never did make any good bass traps. I have a helmholts bass trap I made, but I dont know if I tuned it right, and I didn't tune it to all the bass fundamentals in the room, just one. Anyway, time for me to do a few more things. I want to make some and have some of my photographs printed on canvas, then stretch those across the abosrbers, so I have nice looking ones. I will have those you all these when I finish them. Or should I say if, given my lack of time to get any of my projects done.
I plan on making a few room acoustics treatments to try. I have various pieces of acoustic foam, egg crate, wedges, plain acoustic grade polyurethane foam, etc. However I never did make any good bass traps. I have a helmholts bass trap I made, but I dont know if I tuned it right, and I didn't tune it to all the bass fundamentals in the room, just one. Anyway, time for me to do a few more things. I want to make some and have some of my photographs printed on canvas, then stretch those across the abosrbers, so I have nice looking ones. I will have those you all these when I finish them. Or should I say if, given my lack of time to get any of my projects done.
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