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Old 27th November 2006, 07:13 PM   #1
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Lightbulb cheap as chips high end speaker cables

try this cable before you spend silly money on speaker cable like i have done many times.
go to rs components and order 359-510 wire ptfe 19/0.15 for 15 uk pounds! and for that you get a role of 25m!
only prob is its pink!
it shound not work because it is to thin? but bass is full and extened and treble is clear and sweet honest
you wont believe what your hearing, run it singe cable not doubled up
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Old 27th November 2006, 07:35 PM   #2
owdi is offline owdi  United States
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It's cheap because it's thin, causing it to have high resistance. Don't use it for the same reason you wouldn't use a 22 awg inductor, it will reduce the efficiency of your speakers.

Dan
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Old 27th November 2006, 07:53 PM   #3
Nordic is offline Nordic  South Africa
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The only time thin wire is acceptable is with very short wires... the longer your speaker cable, the thicker it needs to be, "finnish and klaar".
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Old 27th November 2006, 07:53 PM   #4
lineup is offline lineup  Sweden
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you can parallel
4 + 4 lengths of wire
and so reduce resistance and inductance
with a factor ~4
( only 25% of using 1 + 1 wire )


You put them together like this:
Click the image to open in full size.
Howto:
http://www.svalander.se/teknik/kablar/flata.htm

English / Swedish:
Svalander Audio
( speciality: Vinyl, turntables, analog audio )
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Old 28th November 2006, 12:02 AM   #5
phn is offline phn  Sweden
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Wire Gauge - Ohm/100ft - 8Ohms - 4Ohms - 2Ohms load
#8 ----------- .0605 ----- 0.8% -- 1.5% --- 3.0%
#10 --------- .1018 ----- 1.3% --- 2.5% --- 5.1%
#12 --------- .1619 ----- 2.0% --- 4.0% --- 8.1%
#14 --------- .2575 ----- 3.2% --- 6.4% -- 12.9%
#16 --------- .4094 ----- 5.1% -- 10.2% -- 20.5%
#18 --------- .6510 ----- 8.1% -- 16.3% -- 32.6%
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Old 28th November 2006, 12:34 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by lineup
you can parallel
4 + 4 lengths of wire
and so reduce resistance and inductance
with a factor ~4
( only 25% of using 1 + 1 wire )
...and increases capacitance by the same factor. Such increased capacitance can interfere with the feedback loop in some SS amps, by shunting the HF components, to the extent that the amps can self-destruct.
If you perform a square wave test, it will show significant overshoots on transients due to the higher capacitance of the cable. This can give the erroneous impression of enhanced HF response of the system.

TINSTAAFL ("There Is No Such Thing As A Free Lunch")
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Old 28th November 2006, 12:43 AM   #7
lineup is offline lineup  Sweden
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Quote:
Originally posted by phn
Wire Gauge - Ohm/100ft - 8Ohms - 4Ohms - 2Ohms load
#8 ----------- .0605 ----- 0.8% -- 1.5% --- 3.0%
#10 --------- .1018 ----- 1.3% --- 2.5% --- 5.1%
#12 --------- .1619 ----- 2.0% --- 4.0% --- 8.1%
#14 --------- .2575 ----- 3.2% --- 6.4% -- 12.9%
#16 --------- .4094 ----- 5.1% -- 10.2% -- 20.5%
#18 --------- .6510 ----- 8.1% -- 16.3% -- 32.6%
#18------------ .65 Ohm/100ft === 8.1% of 8 Ohm

.... but 100ft ~30 meter!
I don't think an average cable is more than 6-10ft ( = 1.8-3m )

What often is considered as maximum acceptable impedance of a cable in relation to Load
is ---> 1:20

This gives the resistance of a loudspeaker cable should be:
for
8 Ohm: <= 0.4 Ohm
4 Ohm: <= 0.2 Ohm
2 Ohm: <= 0.1 Ohm

When using normal price good standard cable, for a normal system,
where we will eventually use 4-8 Ohm speakers,
we could be sure we have a good low value
if cable has got half of that 1:20 ratio at 4 Ohm = = ratio 1:40

4 Ohm /40 =

0.1 Ohm
Such a cable of good normal standard quality, would not cause any troubles.
It would be almost transparent in any situation.


lineup
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Old 28th November 2006, 12:53 AM   #8
lineup is offline lineup  Sweden
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cloth Ears

...and increases capacitance by the same factor. Such increased capacitance can interfere with the feedback loop in some SS amps, by shunting the HF components, to the extent that the amps can self-destruct.
If you perform a square wave test, it will show significant overshoots on transients due to the higher capacitance of the cable. This can give the erroneous impression of enhanced HF response of the system.

TINSTAAFL ("There Is No Such Thing As A Free Lunch")
You are right.

Yes, I was aware of this, and I even thought about it,
while I posting about the use of 4-doubled thinner cables.
But I did not mention this very correct fact.


Eventual CAPACITANCE in loudspeaker cables - AND IN CROSSOVERS
is the reason why we see this
series output resistor inside a wire wound inductor
in any serious or commercial power amplifier output.

Nelson Pass have told he never have had to use this output filter himself
and haven't had any problems.
But he most surely have no big capacitive loads from his speakers ....
Anyway, it does not hurt anything, to use such a safety filter
at our power amplifier outputs.

lineup
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Old 28th November 2006, 02:18 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by lineup
You are right.

Yes, I was aware of this, and I even thought about it,
while I posting about the use of 4-doubled thinner cables.
But I did not mention this very correct fact.
But I also forgot to mention, Does not affect all amps (the early, high-powered, SS from '70s and '80s mostly). And, if you have low feedback (or none) then it won't affect.

I think 4 cables would not be so much of a problem. But when you get 8 or 12 then your capacitance is way up...
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Old 28th November 2006, 05:58 PM   #10
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I use twisted pair ribbon cable to connect my speakers to my amp. There are 17 pairs in each cable. I have measured the capacitance of the cable to be 1100 pF per foot. The cables are about 10 feet long.

I am not able to hear any difference between this cable and 12 gauge zip cord. The only reason I use these cables it because I went to the trouble of making them as an experiment. The cables are connected to Quad ESL-63 speakers, and my LM3886 based chip amp. The chip amp has the data sheet recommended L||R output network to prevent instability with capacitive loads. The amp has never had any problems driving this combination of cable and speaker load.

I_F
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