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Old 1st October 2006, 11:20 AM   #11
MikeB is offline MikeB  Germany
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Okay, i was assuming not comparing with different DACs, these have definitely big differences in sonics.

Sometimes there is the effect that a copied CD sounds different than the original, this is something that should not be possible with digital sound.

Not to be mistaken with cryogenic treated DVDs, giving a better image quality with more alive colors and better contrast...

Mike
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Old 1st October 2006, 12:10 PM   #12
Netlist is offline Netlist  Belgium
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Mike,

I have no SPDIF out from the CD player.
I guess optical won't do? Sorry to ask, don't know much about digital.

-=Hugo=-
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Old 1st October 2006, 12:23 PM   #13
soongsc is offline soongsc  Taiwan
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Very interesting experience. I think if you are comparing on the computer visually, then you compare the data samples, and if the timing is aligned, there is no difference. But when you copy, I am not sure whether the data is in the same sequence or whether the burn quality is the same. If the burn quality is not the same, might there be some resampling until the data gets read without error? This would effect the power requirements and all that inter related effects, wouldn't it?
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Old 1st October 2006, 12:58 PM   #14
peufeu is offline peufeu  France
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Yeah; I did a similar experiment (except I wrote a little program to find the offset between the original and the copy and do the comparison ).

Surprise, it just works...

Actually what you rip is what you burn. It just works... the only causes for trouble are scratches, and really crap blanks like no-name "brand X" CDRs which will erase themselves if exposed to the sun for a few hours...

When I see some commercial blurb about a transport saying how it has a stable heavy platter ensuring perfect read from the CD, it just makes me feel sorry for the poor uninformed guys who will spend $$$ on this, when a $20 computer CD drive can extract audio at 20x speed without any bit error.
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Old 1st October 2006, 12:59 PM   #15
MikeB is offline MikeB  Germany
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Quote:
Originally posted by Netlist
Mike,

I have no SPDIF out from the CD player.
I guess optical won't do? Sorry to ask, don't know much about digital.

-=Hugo=-
Hugo, Optical/Coax are both the same signal, and can be converted with leds/photosensitive devices.
I can do the test, i have spdif at player and soundcard.

Soongsc, the moment data is resampled, it's no longer a digital copy and there was a read error. Digital means that there are 0 and 1 only, nothing between. Digital can't degrade. Because of this, it can be copied as often as you want.

peufeu, very good point !

Mike
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Old 1st October 2006, 01:17 PM   #16
Netlist is offline Netlist  Belgium
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So I put the disk in my player and connected to optical out to the optical in of the soundcard.
Recording is done but its a hell of a time to match both tracks. If that program is freeware I would be most interested to give it a try.
Also, the output of the cd player is hardly adjustable to make both tracks even loud. But I think I'll burn a sine wave on CD to adjust the volume.

Mike,
It would be nice to hear what you found.

/Hugo
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Old 1st October 2006, 01:36 PM   #17
MikeB is offline MikeB  Germany
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Hugo, if you get a change in volume by recording via spdif, forget it... Data got resampled/changed and is no longer a digital copy. Maybe there is somewhere a button to disable this feature. On my card i have an option to tell that data recorded is non-audio (like dts/DD, non-pcm)

Mike
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Old 1st October 2006, 02:06 PM   #18
Netlist is offline Netlist  Belgium
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Well, there is the input volume slider in windows for the Spdif input. Unfortunately, I can't get a perfect match.
Well then, so be it, perhaps you like to do the test.

/Hugo
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Old 1st October 2006, 02:20 PM   #19
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You didn't compare an analog signal to a digital one as the title of the thread suggests. You compared two digital signals, one generation apart via the CDR. Your source could just as well have been a commercial CD as an analog disc.

It would be more interesting to compare an analog disc playback to a commercial CD of the same music. Then you can see/hear the difference between the analog and digital playback mechanisms.

I_F
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Old 1st October 2006, 02:34 PM   #20
Netlist is offline Netlist  Belgium
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Correct, this is what I would like to achieve in the end.
Though one I'm afraid.

The comparison between an analog disc playback and a commercial CD has been done here.
Of course this is a rather extreem example of how bad this CD is (to me).

/Hugo
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