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Old 12th December 2002, 07:37 AM   #1
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Lightbulb Attention... attention... testing, 1, 2, 3

Out of everything bad that happens, one should try to make something good out of it...

Recent events on the forum have been traumatic, and have resulted in some shakeups in the moderation team. For one I am now the new leader of the team (aside: yes there always was a leader, we don't want to keep that from you anymore).

They are calling me the Captain, but it could just as easily be Prime Minister or Grand Pooba (or dufus for that matter). Anyways it means I get called to task if any of the team screw up and I get to make all the tough decisions.

We lost a few mods, but we are recruiting more. We'll let you know who there are once we get them fitted for uniforms.

During the "riots" there were many demands, and some solid points made. We have not been sitting with a blind eye, but considering how we can implement the good ones while still staying within our mandate.

We also have a selfish reason for implementing some changes. It is sometimes stressful being a mod, so these changes are also meant to make things easier for us, to attempt greater consistency, to make it harder to make mistakes, and to institute a mechanism to undo mistakes (we will make them).

What follows is an outline of the more significant changes proposed. There will also be some cosmetic changes -- those will just appear. These changes won't happen instantly, there is some lead time to get them implemented, so I invite your comments at the end of this thread.

I have borrowed freely from other's posts in what follows, so even though it is my moniker over on the left, the contents are a team effort (and some won't know they participated till they read their words).

I would like to make a comment on the next post.

The forum is made up of members, and the whole is more than the sum of its parts -- the strength of the forum is its membership.

I believe that the best democracy is one that requires no Government and no Police. The currency is respect and people feel they are robbing themselves if they don't contribute. Because of the world we have been raised in this is unlikely to just happen. So we have moderators to keep nudging diyAudio in this direction.

(there is even a reference book. Here it is on Amazon)

And in the spirit of the above I ask you all to be informal moderators. And if you need something done that requires access to the engine room, we are only a click away.

dave
(head of the moderator team*)

* but you can call us the mod squad -- Fred do you have a picture for us?
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Old 12th December 2002, 07:37 AM   #2
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Lightbulb Some thoughts on democracy.

While we believe democracy to be the best form for fair/just rule/government of a general population of people for the governance of a political entity, it is not an inherant right that is bestowed to every entity.

DiyAudio.com is not a polical or democratic entity.

This forum is privately owned and operated by a team of individuals enforcing rules/policies that are approved by the site owner. As such, the method of governing the system is decided by that owner in such a way as he believes will be most efficent and beneficial to the system as a whole.

A purpose specific system is best served by using a governing method that allows it to be most efficient for it's chosen objective. In the case of diyaudio, the objective is to have a rich source of D.I.Y. technical disccussions promoting a well-structured social and knowledge/data structure. TO this end, diyAudio will implement those methods/policies that DiyAudio believes to meet these objectives.

In any government, regardless of type, the authority of staff must be intact. The authoritive system must be firm, and not be swayed from it's in-motion actions by members simply because they do not agree with it.

We wish for this site to be an enjoyable happy place for the members while maintaining the best possible system for our objectives as we deem appropriate.

Sincerely.

The DIYAUDIO Moderating Team
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Old 12th December 2002, 07:51 AM   #3
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Default Change #1, Uniformed Moderators

Each mod would have a 2nd uniformed ID for making any posts having to do with moderation. All mods will have a common avatar* and a common signature (or from a clearly common family).

This should make it very clear when a moderater is posting officially.

Just as regular members will often make posts to diffuse a situation, moderators in their role as members will make such posts. When they do this they are to be considerd as just members.

Moderators while in their civilian cloths may also make informational posts.

* (we are still looking for uniforms -- suggestions or original artwork appreciated)
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Old 12th December 2002, 07:56 AM   #4
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Default Change #2, code name "Texas"

The name comes from Schrodinger's Cat Trilogy by Robert Anton Wilson. I like it, but if any Texans object we will have to come up with something else.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books

This is an extension of the concept that is currently implemented as the Trash Bin.

It really is quite simple.

During the "riots" the most common theme was to have no censorship & that no posts be deleted. So from now on we won't (with some exceptions*) do either.

One of the hardest things for a mod was to edit or not edit, and if it was edit then what, and what to put as a mod note. We will now pass that responsibility to the membership. Specifically the member that made the post**.

If we find a post we don't like we send it to Texas. Then we send a form letter to the posting member. They can then appeal the decision, have us leave it, or delete it, but we will encorage that any technical info be reposted (without the objectionable bits).

Because members can be as young as 13, and since one of the reasons for something to go to Texas is that it may be material suitable for adults only or contain material that some might find objectionable, Texas will be gated. To get in you have to be a member 1st, and you have to pass thru a portal where you declare you are of the appropriate age (18?).

All posts/threads sent to Texas will be closed, but there will be an open thread where people can talk behind the walls -- people currently in the SinBin may be allowed post here? Any technical posts will be kicked out of Texas onto the forum proper.

My hope is that members will choose to revise their post and have the offending one deleted from Texas. In a perfect world Texas would be uninhabited.

* exceptions to include:
1/ typos -- ie, fixing tags so they work, fixing broken URL or fix a spelling error to make a post more readable?
2/ links to porn or blatant pictures of. There are enuff other places to find all the links you would ever need. I don't think we want any here. (if just to avoid getting black-listed by porn seeking anti-porn spiders)
3/ racial or predudicial slurs
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Old 12th December 2002, 08:01 AM   #5
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Default Now an important announcement

There is an ancient tradition of pardoning the condemned at Winter Solstice based, in part, on the hope that it will appease the Godís and help restore light and warmth to the planet. The tradition heralded a turning point, a celebration - The day that marks the return of the sun and all that is good. Given the quickness with which most of us condemn, there is a certain wisdom and humanity in such traditions.

In the spirit of this tradition, we are opening the doors to the SinBin to let Jason, the webmaster, and lifter out.

And to figuratively release all those who recently suggested they should be there -- mrfeedback, dhaen, till, myself (whom Brett thought should be banned), and anybody i missed.

And fdegove's ban is removed.

We did prepare this official statement

Fdegrove on 12/09/2002 has given us his personal assurance that he did not, and does not intend to sue DIY or any persons related to DIY in any manner. We of course are very pleased to hear that from Frank. Accordingly his ban is lifted immediatly and he is welcomed back.

(actual statement below)

however it seemed a bit formal so we also include an additional statement

Fdegrove, you scurvy bastard. Tell us you will sue eh. 24 years hard labour. No TV. No hot water bottle in bed at night. That little blonde number you had your eyes on. Forget it. We have her now. Tim the tool man has just delivered our new stretching rack which needs some adjustments. You volunteer. Good boy.

(a little story about lawsuits below)

and to show our generous nature we have found a nice Christmas present for Frank

<img src="http://members.shaw.ca/planet10/forFrank.gif">
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Old 12th December 2002, 08:02 AM   #6
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Default fdegrove's statement

Hello David,

Hereby I state firmly that I never,never intended any legal action against
Diyaudio.com.

I'm willing to confirm this by fax,writing or whatever acceptable legal
means.
As stated in previous correspondence I did not intend any legal action of
this,nor any kind and I will let all alleged threats drop without further
action.
My threats against mentioned person (Dice45) were a means of warning,nothing
less,nothing more against his person not the forum as such.

As a person,member of the forum I already expressed my apology for any moral
damage done and I don't mind repeating that.
At the time,I got fed up with the ongoing situation and didn't know witch
way to turn.

I thank you for your concern and express the wish to be able to further
contribute as a well willing member to the prosperity of the forum.
As I expressed to other members,I would be very happy to be reininstated as
a member...yet if there is any doubt in your mind about my intentions
towards your community then please don't.
I am who I am...as a person... and if that is threatening to the forum's
survival than please exclude me from membership.(I would understand).

Thank you for the kind thoughts and effort,

Frank.
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Old 12th December 2002, 08:04 AM   #7
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Default Why lawsuits cannot be treated as trivial

A short story of fiction about Larry, Curly, Moe, their Lawyers and the way disputes often unfold in life (and cyberspace).

In the US, if Larry consulted an attorney a very likely course that might ensue is as follows: the attorney replies " What an outrage. This man Curly has defamed you unneccessarily and you are such a pillar of the community" and while talking with Larry tries to figure out from various questions and his appraisal of Larry, how much money he can ask for to get started. Then he says "This is such an unbelievable thing, this Curly should not be allowed to go around making such statements about you or anyone else. Of course there is no criminal act involved here, this is a civil case. My fee to get started on this is $2,000 and I will expect 40% of your final award. (all the while knowing that there will be no such award). Larry, however, hears about the award and immediately thinks - I can make some money out of this and teach that Curly a lesson.

So Larry then thinks well, I'll have to put up two grand but I'll get this back and more - and asks the lawyer what his chances are - the lawyer says, in all honesty this will probably never go to court, most of these sort of things are settled out of court.
Larry thinks well, I'll settle for less not to have to go through the hassle and because I would rather have the money quickly anyhow. His motivation then becomes more one of reward but is fueled by the underlying anger.

So the lawyer then paints a pretty picture of Larry's chances, all the while qualifying his statements with various if's but gives the general impression that it is a pretty good business gamble without actually saying so.

So Larry gives him the $2 grand and the lawyer says I'll be in touch.

Three or four weeks pass and the lawyer says to Larrry, it appears that Curly has no money or visible assets so the only recourse we have now is to include Moe, who is equally liable. Larry, agrees because he's $2,000 down and Moe didn't take his side in this event. The lawyer says that we have to have an attorney in Timbuktu actually file the papers. That'll be $500 more - Larry says whoa - you said two thousand - the lawyer says I said two thousand plus costs (he did, but Larry had not really heard that part) Larry finds out he won't get a refund on his two grand so he puts up the $500, grumbling all the while.

So the Lawyer in Timbuktu files papers on Curly and Moe.

Moe's lawyer tells them this is BS but it takes a thousand to file the response.
so they respond, because they have no choice other than file bankruptcy and or just let Larry's lawyer take judgements.

Back to the Larry's lawyer, who when he reads the response to is absolutley gleeful to Larry and says - their response is total BS and we have them by the short hairs. However, this thing is getting complicated and we need to file discovery papers in Timbuktu at WebHost, etc - the guy in Timbuktu needs another $500 for subpeona's and depositions and I need another $500 for me.

A possible break point here - depends on how much Larry can be bled for - however Larry is $2,500 down and needs to ante up to stay in the game, and the lawyer keeps talking about the final award while Larry is thinking he would love to have the money and hates to lose the $2,500- so say he puts up another grand.

Back to Timbuktu -

Moe's lawyer says " this thing is getting complicated guys, they've subpeonaed your domain host and I need to review this an other factors so we will know what is going on and be able to prepare our defense - also, I'll need to be present when these depositions are taken, etc. So I need another grand.

Two weeks pass while Moe is figuring how to come up with the money. Larry's lawyer calls and asks Moe's lawyer some technical questions which Moe's lawyer is obliged to answer. Into the conversation he inserts the comment, that well he thinks he can get his client to settle for $20,000.

Moe's lawyer laughs and says no way, Moe and Curly don't have it. various fencing goes on and they arrive at $10,000 as being a reasonable offer.

Moe's lawyer calls Moe and says, by the way they have made an offer of settlement for $10,000, I advise you to take it because of how high the legal fees are going to run. It also looks now like they have a pretty good shot at winning this thing. Moe says "I thought you said it was BS", Moe's lawyer says well you didn't tell me about so and so.

Larry's lawyer tells him that he thinks he can get Moe to settle for $10,000 at which Larry says "wha??" Larry's lawyer then says well thinks don't really look so good. Now that I have this technical info from Moe's lawyer, and not only that I don't believe that they have any more money than that and we will be lucky to get that much. So the lawyers go back and forth with their clients negotiating a settlement until they arrive at $6,000 which Larry won't go below because that is his break even point (he'll get $3,600 and he's put out $3,500), and Moe has now figured out that the bankruptcy filing fees and hassle and BS to get it behind him is worth that much, and a standard agreement of secrecy is agreed to by both parties because they generally don't want everyone else to know about the mess and the lawyers promote the secrecy agreement because it is generally better for their business overall.

The lawyers will never do any actual work more than having to generate several pages of legal BS, they intend to settle from the start and will never do any real work until they know that it is impossible to reach a settlement.

In the US, Larry would be unlikely to be laughed at. It would come down to how much money he would put toward it.

Which is why most of this stuff stops right at the first when they have to put up the money. But, you never really know.

And the story ends how most of them end. No one is really happy with the final result. Except of course the lawyers, who made some money on it.

Lawyer bashing has a lot of basis in facts.
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Old 14th December 2002, 01:22 AM   #8
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Default Best of the Season...

... to one and ALL.

dave
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Old 14th December 2002, 01:01 PM   #9
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Hi Planet10,

congrats for your appointment! It's so nice to see that you put so much energy & work into your new job and especially into PR

Do you welcome any non- moderator posts in this thread?

edit\ or did you just forget to lock it up??
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Old 14th December 2002, 01:35 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by bob4
Do you welcome any non- moderator posts in this thread?
Post away ...

dave
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