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Old 20th August 2006, 08:43 PM   #1
tcpip is offline tcpip  India
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Default Engineers too listen to music

Thought some of you may find this interesting: it's a set of observations about a recent National Semi appnote:

http://www.dhandanought.org/tcpip/site/?q=node/20
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Old 20th August 2006, 08:57 PM   #2
poobah is offline poobah  United States
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What I read there is that: objectivists can be subjective, while subjectivists cannot be objective. Supports my theory as to which "group" is half-witted.

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Old 20th August 2006, 09:16 PM   #3
EC8010 is offline EC8010  United Kingdom
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I'm particularly fond of people who can't apply Ohm's Law telling me that audio design is all wrong. The NS data sheet quotes are interesting - good for them.
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Old 20th August 2006, 09:26 PM   #4
poobah is offline poobah  United States
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Yeah,

it's funny that people would presume that engineers DON'T listen to their stuff. I mean, what's the high point of the day? All the measurements are done etc... O.K. turn it up!

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Old 20th August 2006, 09:45 PM   #5
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I find these small remarks in one corner of one application note a serious watershed in audio system design debates.

WHAT IS HIS POINT?

First he states that subjectivists do not accept bt, and then he wonders when objectivists conduct a blind test and find that a cap - any cap appenrently - causes sound degradation? Wheres the contradiction? Where the reason to celebrate?

I gladly accept the claim that whatever causes whatever sound degradation if it there was one test that can show this conclusively.

BTW - again jumping to conclusions - since the non implementation of a dc blocking caps makes a difference - that the quality of caps makes one too.

I am just tired to follow this kind of thinking, it is simply too strenuous.
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Old 20th August 2006, 09:52 PM   #6
EC8010 is offline EC8010  United Kingdom
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I think his point is that a mainstream traditional engineering company now finds it useful to make and publicise their subjective tests. Certainly, I consider it intriguing.
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Old 20th August 2006, 10:39 PM   #7
BWRX is offline BWRX  United States
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Hey, engineers are entitled to their opinion too! Just because they work for National Semi doesn't mean their musical preferences should be held to a higher degree of credibility than someone else's.

For the record I agree that no coupling caps in the signal path is the way to go not only because it sounds better but because that's one less component we need to buy!
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Old 21st August 2006, 02:51 AM   #8
tcpip is offline tcpip  India
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Originally posted by audio-kraut
WHAT IS HIS POINT?

First he states that subjectivists do not accept bt, and then he wonders when objectivists conduct a blind test and find that a cap - any cap appenrently - causes sound degradation? Wheres the contradiction? Where the reason to celebrate?
I see it differently. First the article states that engineers have pre-conceived notions about what affects sound. Note the references to unsubtle laughter, primarily from rationalists to subjectivists. Then the article states that these engineers are listening to the "sound of a capacitor" and suggesting that a protection measure (DC blocking cap) be dismissed in the interests of sound quality.

The point is not about subjectivists accepting or not accepting blind tests. The point, IMHO, is about engineers discussing the sound of a capacitor.
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Old 21st August 2006, 02:55 AM   #9
tcpip is offline tcpip  India
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Originally posted by BWRX
Hey, engineers are entitled to their opinion too! Just because they work for National Semi doesn't mean their musical preferences should be held to a higher degree of credibility than someone else's.
IMHO, they should, because this sort of opinion means they're actually going against accepted beliefs of their community, and possibly risking subtle ostracisation. Anyone who is willing to risk all this and still go on record probably finds it less painful risking this than holding on to earlier beliefs. I'd tend to treat such opinions as carrying high credibility.
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Old 21st August 2006, 03:45 AM   #10
ingrast is offline ingrast  Uruguay
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Default What's in a word?

I wonder what is meant by "degradation".

As far as I understand at least, it should equate to some - measurable or subjectively perceivable - negative change *WITH RESPECT TO SOMETHING*.

I am not meaning the obvious of course, I understand we are seriously talking about very good non distorting well sounding gear to begin with.

Now who says and on what premises this is "good" and this is "degraded". Will be perfectly happy with a good explanation.

Rodolfo
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