Recording Dynamic compression Reality

fab · 24th May 2006, 03:28 AM

Hi

Please read and comment this article:

http://www.cdmasteringservices.com/dynamicrange.htm

Is there something WE can do to change this to continue!?

Thanks

Fab

I_Forgot · 24th May 2006, 02:08 PM

You don't understand. CD is to be replaced by another "format"- pay per listen downloading from the likes of itunes, etc., in MP3 format. If the CD is to be driven out of existence, people have to want it to go away. By making CDs sound like crap, even compared to the MP3 files from commercial on-line sources, they have to be made to sound bad compared to the crappy MP3 files.

Radio ready? Does not apply anymore. No one listens to radio anymore, and when they do, it's talk radio, not music. Spin the dial and make a note of how many radio stations you here playing music of any sort. And what are they playing? Most of the remaining stations are playing Britney Spears and "oldies" like "classic rock".

If you want to hear new music these days you listen to streaming audio on the internet. Sure the quality isn't perfect, but it's better than the radio. There is no need for compression on streaming audio on the net.

Recorded music on any format other than a memory chip (wrapped in DRM crap) is history.

I_F

fab · 26th May 2006, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by I_Forgot
You don't understand. CD is to be replaced by another "format"- pay per listen downloading from the likes of itunes, etc., in MP3 format. If the CD is to be driven out of existence, people have to want it to go away. By making CDs sound like crap, even compared to the MP3 files from commercial on-line sources, they have to be made to sound bad compared to the crappy MP3 files.

Radio ready? Does not apply anymore. No one listens to radio anymore, and when they do, it's talk radio, not music. Spin the dial and make a note of how many radio stations you here playing music of any sort. And what are they playing? Most of the remaining stations are playing Britney Spears and "oldies" like "classic rock".

If you want to hear new music these days you listen to streaming audio on the internet. Sure the quality isn't perfect, but it's better than the radio. There is no need for compression on streaming audio on the net.

Recorded music on any format other than a memory chip (wrapped in DRM crap) is history.

I_F

OK I think you agree in general with the article but the CD is only an example I believe since this is what was verified. I think that when you produce MP3 files it is from the original CD, no? So MP3 is only even worse than CD then...

Why memory chip would be better production? I mean compression goal (as described in the article) is to make the recordings to sound louder compared to other recordings...

Geek · 26th May 2006, 06:56 AM

That SUCKS!

I'm glad I listen to high dynamic range stuff like CBC or lossless downloads of Jazz and Classical from european recording studios.

davidsrsb · 26th May 2006, 04:26 PM

Probably something to do with so many new acts who are not actually musicians.

CD sales of new musicians are way down these days, so the music industry is fading away, just like most of us. MTV is not about cd sales, its about selling trainers, lager and ringtones. The latter is the problem, you want your phone ring loud.

I_Forgot · 26th May 2006, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fab

OK I think you agree in general with the article but the CD is only an example I believe since this is what was verified. I think that when you produce MP3 files it is from the original CD, no? So MP3 is only even worse than CD then...

Why memory chip would be better production? I mean compression goal (as described in the article) is to make the recordings to sound louder compared to other recordings...

YOUR home made mp3s from the crappy CDs will sound bad compared to itunes files made from better mixes. That will get you to stop ripping your own discs and just buy the files via itunes, etc. It will also get you to stop buying CDs so they can shut down the manufacturing facilities and close up the distribution networks that are costing money to keep running.

The file on a flash memory chip comes from the pay-per-download services. That's why it is better than the mp3 ripped from a CD on your computer.

You might have thought that people would want to be able to store and play music from different mediums but that does not seem to be the case. Look at how many pod-people there are compared to the number buying quality players from other companies, even though the other systems allow you to store and play files on any medium you want, and support better quality compression such as .ogg and flac.

Most people don't care about the quality of the sound either, or they wouldn't mess with lossy compression.

What people want is for everything to be EASY. It is easy to pay $1 to have someone else do the ripping. It is easier to not have the option of moving the files around to other devices, because that eliminates a lot of questions about hardware, software, and media. It is easier to just buy an FM transmitter to listen to the files in the car.

The CD is dead. There is no replacement medium other than generic flash memory.

I_F

fab · 27th May 2006, 01:07 PM

QUOTE]Originally posted by I_Forgot

YOUR home made mp3s from the crappy CDs will sound bad compared to itunes files made from better mixes. That will get you to stop ripping your own discs and just buy the files via itunes, etc. It will also get you to stop buying CDs so they can shut down the manufacturing facilities and close up the distribution networks that are costing money to keep running.

The file on a flash memory chip comes from the pay-per-download services. That's why it is better than the mp3 ripped from a CD on your computer.

You might have thought that people would want to be able to store and play music from different mediums but that does not seem to be the case. Look at how many pod-people there are compared to the number buying quality players from other companies, even though the other systems allow you to store and play files on any medium you want, and support better quality compression such as .ogg and flac.

Most people don't care about the quality of the sound either, or they wouldn't mess with lossy compression.

What people want is for everything to be EASY. It is easy to pay $1 to have someone else do the ripping. It is easier to not have the option of moving the files around to other devices, because that eliminates a lot of questions about hardware, software, and media. It is easier to just buy an FM transmitter to listen to the files in the car.

The CD is dead. There is no replacement medium other than generic flash memory.

I_F [/QUOTE]

So you really mean that it is when the transmssion of the music from the original media into the CD that the dynamic compression is done? The original mix does not have compression and is available for download? But size compression (sampling rate) like MP3 or ipod format for me is not HI-FI. I want uncompressed dynamic range with the highest bit A/D conversion at the highest sampling rate that can preserve the original sound. I want also good sound capture and godd mixing too. For the latter, it sould be wise to define some audio recording/mixing standards to have a mode uniform sound reproduction in our living room.

I agree with your observation on the "EASY" part about peoples but for me ipod is for small hear plugs and I like to listen to speakers in a room that is more enjoyable to listen with friends to discuss about our appreciation of the music too. Also ,by comparison, that is why I like more a big cinema room witha bigh screen and surround sound than to watch a 6 inch TV at 12 inches of my eyes. Same reason why I like to see the real GRand Canyon than to see a film on a small TV set.

As for the CD dead it is not my concern but more the sound reproduction in my living room...

fab · 27th May 2006, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by davidsrsb
Probably something to do with so many new acts who are not actually musicians.

CD sales of new musicians are way down these days, so the music industry is fading away, just like most of us. MTV is not about cd sales, its about selling trainers, lager and ringtones. The latter is the problem, you want your phone ring loud.

I do not mind about the industry of illusions and fashion. I think this another issue. Today there are still good audio music production (progressive music, classical, jazz, popular, etc..) and it is worth trying to preserve the good sound. Marketing stuff like Britney Spear will always be more popular than real music but real music still exists today...so there is a place for it!

fab · 27th May 2006, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Geek
That SUCKS!

I'm glad I listen to high dynamic range stuff like CBC or lossless downloads of Jazz and Classical from european recording studios.

I am glad that there is at least some peoples who share my concern too!!!

CBC?
Where do you get "lossless downloads of Jazz"?

davidsrsb · 28th May 2006, 06:34 AM

I was listening to some live jazz recently and realised that the sound was heavily clipped. Hint - do you REALLY need to amplify drums in a small restaurant?

The sound engineer did not seem to be too bothered. Are people getting brainwashed into thinking that this is the way everything should sound?

24th May 2006, 03:28 AM	#1
fab diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Canada	Recording Dynamic compression Reality Hi Please read and comment this article: http://www.cdmasteringservices.com/dynamicrange.htm Is there something WE can do to change this to continue!? Thanks Fab

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24th May 2006, 02:08 PM	#2
I_Forgot diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Phoenix, Az.	You don't understand. CD is to be replaced by another "format"- pay per listen downloading from the likes of itunes, etc., in MP3 format. If the CD is to be driven out of existence, people have to want it to go away. By making CDs sound like crap, even compared to the MP3 files from commercial on-line sources, they have to be made to sound bad compared to the crappy MP3 files. Radio ready? Does not apply anymore. No one listens to radio anymore, and when they do, it's talk radio, not music. Spin the dial and make a note of how many radio stations you here playing music of any sort. And what are they playing? Most of the remaining stations are playing Britney Spears and "oldies" like "classic rock". If you want to hear new music these days you listen to streaming audio on the internet. Sure the quality isn't perfect, but it's better than the radio. There is no need for compression on streaming audio on the net. Recorded music on any format other than a memory chip (wrapped in DRM crap) is history. I_F

26th May 2006, 06:56 AM	#4
Geek diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2004	That SUCKS! I'm glad I listen to high dynamic range stuff like CBC or lossless downloads of Jazz and Classical from european recording studios.

26th May 2006, 04:26 PM	#5
davidsrsb diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kuala Lumpur	Probably something to do with so many new acts who are not actually musicians. CD sales of new musicians are way down these days, so the music industry is fading away, just like most of us. MTV is not about cd sales, its about selling trainers, lager and ringtones. The latter is the problem, you want your phone ring loud.

27th May 2006, 01:07 PM	#7
fab diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Canada	QUOTE]Originally posted by I_Forgot YOUR home made mp3s from the crappy CDs will sound bad compared to itunes files made from better mixes. That will get you to stop ripping your own discs and just buy the files via itunes, etc. It will also get you to stop buying CDs so they can shut down the manufacturing facilities and close up the distribution networks that are costing money to keep running. The file on a flash memory chip comes from the pay-per-download services. That's why it is better than the mp3 ripped from a CD on your computer. You might have thought that people would want to be able to store and play music from different mediums but that does not seem to be the case. Look at how many pod-people there are compared to the number buying quality players from other companies, even though the other systems allow you to store and play files on any medium you want, and support better quality compression such as .ogg and flac. Most people don't care about the quality of the sound either, or they wouldn't mess with lossy compression. What people want is for everything to be EASY. It is easy to pay $1 to have someone else do the ripping. It is easier to not have the option of moving the files around to other devices, because that eliminates a lot of questions about hardware, software, and media. It is easier to just buy an FM transmitter to listen to the files in the car. The CD is dead. There is no replacement medium other than generic flash memory. I_F [/QUOTE] So you really mean that it is when the transmssion of the music from the original media into the CD that the dynamic compression is done? The original mix does not have compression and is available for download? But size compression (sampling rate) like MP3 or ipod format for me is not HI-FI. I want uncompressed dynamic range with the highest bit A/D conversion at the highest sampling rate that can preserve the original sound. I want also good sound capture and godd mixing too. For the latter, it sould be wise to define some audio recording/mixing standards to have a mode uniform sound reproduction in our living room. I agree with your observation on the "EASY" part about peoples but for me ipod is for small hear plugs and I like to listen to speakers in a room that is more enjoyable to listen with friends to discuss about our appreciation of the music too. Also ,by comparison, that is why I like more a big cinema room witha bigh screen and surround sound than to watch a 6 inch TV at 12 inches of my eyes. Same reason why I like to see the real GRand Canyon than to see a film on a small TV set. As for the CD dead it is not my concern but more the sound reproduction in my living room...

28th May 2006, 06:34 AM	#10
davidsrsb diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kuala Lumpur	I was listening to some live jazz recently and realised that the sound was heavily clipped. Hint - do you REALLY need to amplify drums in a small restaurant? The sound engineer did not seem to be too bothered. Are people getting brainwashed into thinking that this is the way everything should sound?