Hi
Please read and comment this article:
http://www.cdmasteringservices.com/dynamicrange.htm
Is there something WE can do to change this to continue!?
Thanks
Fab
Please read and comment this article:
http://www.cdmasteringservices.com/dynamicrange.htm
Is there something WE can do to change this to continue!?
Thanks
Fab
You don't understand. CD is to be replaced by another "format"- pay per listen downloading from the likes of itunes, etc., in MP3 format. If the CD is to be driven out of existence, people have to want it to go away. By making CDs sound like crap, even compared to the MP3 files from commercial on-line sources, they have to be made to sound bad compared to the crappy MP3 files.
Radio ready? Does not apply anymore. No one listens to radio anymore, and when they do, it's talk radio, not music. Spin the dial and make a note of how many radio stations you here playing music of any sort. And what are they playing? Most of the remaining stations are playing Britney Spears and "oldies" like "classic rock".
If you want to hear new music these days you listen to streaming audio on the internet. Sure the quality isn't perfect, but it's better than the radio. There is no need for compression on streaming audio on the net.
Recorded music on any format other than a memory chip (wrapped in DRM crap) is history.
I_F
Radio ready? Does not apply anymore. No one listens to radio anymore, and when they do, it's talk radio, not music. Spin the dial and make a note of how many radio stations you here playing music of any sort. And what are they playing? Most of the remaining stations are playing Britney Spears and "oldies" like "classic rock".
If you want to hear new music these days you listen to streaming audio on the internet. Sure the quality isn't perfect, but it's better than the radio. There is no need for compression on streaming audio on the net.
Recorded music on any format other than a memory chip (wrapped in DRM crap) is history.
I_F
I_Forgot said:
OK I think you agree in general with the article but the CD is only an example I believe since this is what was verified. I think that when you produce MP3 files it is from the original CD, no? So MP3 is only even worse than CD then...
Why memory chip would be better production? I mean compression goal (as described in the article) is to make the recordings to sound louder compared to other recordings...
Probably something to do with so many new acts who are not actually musicians.
CD sales of new musicians are way down these days, so the music industry is fading away, just like most of us. MTV is not about cd sales, its about selling trainers, lager and ringtones. The latter is the problem, you want your phone ring loud.
CD sales of new musicians are way down these days, so the music industry is fading away, just like most of us. MTV is not about cd sales, its about selling trainers, lager and ringtones. The latter is the problem, you want your phone ring loud.
fab said:
YOUR home made mp3s from the crappy CDs will sound bad compared to itunes files made from better mixes. That will get you to stop ripping your own discs and just buy the files via itunes, etc. It will also get you to stop buying CDs so they can shut down the manufacturing facilities and close up the distribution networks that are costing money to keep running.
The file on a flash memory chip comes from the pay-per-download services. That's why it is better than the mp3 ripped from a CD on your computer.
You might have thought that people would want to be able to store and play music from different mediums but that does not seem to be the case. Look at how many pod-people there are compared to the number buying quality players from other companies, even though the other systems allow you to store and play files on any medium you want, and support better quality compression such as .ogg and flac.
Most people don't care about the quality of the sound either, or they wouldn't mess with lossy compression.
What people want is for everything to be EASY. It is easy to pay $1 to have someone else do the ripping. It is easier to not have the option of moving the files around to other devices, because that eliminates a lot of questions about hardware, software, and media. It is easier to just buy an FM transmitter to listen to the files in the car.
The CD is dead. There is no replacement medium other than generic flash memory.
I_F
QUOTE]Originally posted by I_Forgot
YOUR home made mp3s from the crappy CDs will sound bad compared to itunes files made from better mixes. That will get you to stop ripping your own discs and just buy the files via itunes, etc. It will also get you to stop buying CDs so they can shut down the manufacturing facilities and close up the distribution networks that are costing money to keep running.
The file on a flash memory chip comes from the pay-per-download services. That's why it is better than the mp3 ripped from a CD on your computer.
You might have thought that people would want to be able to store and play music from different mediums but that does not seem to be the case. Look at how many pod-people there are compared to the number buying quality players from other companies, even though the other systems allow you to store and play files on any medium you want, and support better quality compression such as .ogg and flac.
Most people don't care about the quality of the sound either, or they wouldn't mess with lossy compression.
What people want is for everything to be EASY. It is easy to pay $1 to have someone else do the ripping. It is easier to not have the option of moving the files around to other devices, because that eliminates a lot of questions about hardware, software, and media. It is easier to just buy an FM transmitter to listen to the files in the car.
The CD is dead. There is no replacement medium other than generic flash memory.
I_F [/QUOTE]
So you really mean that it is when the transmssion of the music from the original media into the CD that the dynamic compression is done? The original mix does not have compression and is available for download? But size compression (sampling rate) like MP3 or ipod format for me is not HI-FI. I want uncompressed dynamic range with the highest bit A/D conversion at the highest sampling rate that can preserve the original sound. I want also good sound capture and godd mixing too. For the latter, it sould be wise to define some audio recording/mixing standards to have a mode uniform sound reproduction in our living room.
I agree with your observation on the "EASY" part about peoples but for me ipod is for small hear plugs and I like to listen to speakers in a room that is more enjoyable to listen with friends to discuss about our appreciation of the music too. Also ,by comparison, that is why I like more a big cinema room witha bigh screen and surround sound than to watch a 6 inch TV at 12 inches of my eyes. Same reason why I like to see the real GRand Canyon than to see a film on a small TV set.
As for the CD dead it is not my concern but more the sound reproduction in my living room...
YOUR home made mp3s from the crappy CDs will sound bad compared to itunes files made from better mixes. That will get you to stop ripping your own discs and just buy the files via itunes, etc. It will also get you to stop buying CDs so they can shut down the manufacturing facilities and close up the distribution networks that are costing money to keep running.
The file on a flash memory chip comes from the pay-per-download services. That's why it is better than the mp3 ripped from a CD on your computer.
You might have thought that people would want to be able to store and play music from different mediums but that does not seem to be the case. Look at how many pod-people there are compared to the number buying quality players from other companies, even though the other systems allow you to store and play files on any medium you want, and support better quality compression such as .ogg and flac.
Most people don't care about the quality of the sound either, or they wouldn't mess with lossy compression.
What people want is for everything to be EASY. It is easy to pay $1 to have someone else do the ripping. It is easier to not have the option of moving the files around to other devices, because that eliminates a lot of questions about hardware, software, and media. It is easier to just buy an FM transmitter to listen to the files in the car.
The CD is dead. There is no replacement medium other than generic flash memory.
I_F [/QUOTE]
So you really mean that it is when the transmssion of the music from the original media into the CD that the dynamic compression is done? The original mix does not have compression and is available for download? But size compression (sampling rate) like MP3 or ipod format for me is not HI-FI. I want uncompressed dynamic range with the highest bit A/D conversion at the highest sampling rate that can preserve the original sound. I want also good sound capture and godd mixing too. For the latter, it sould be wise to define some audio recording/mixing standards to have a mode uniform sound reproduction in our living room.
I agree with your observation on the "EASY" part about peoples but for me ipod is for small hear plugs and I like to listen to speakers in a room that is more enjoyable to listen with friends to discuss about our appreciation of the music too. Also ,by comparison, that is why I like more a big cinema room witha bigh screen and surround sound than to watch a 6 inch TV at 12 inches of my eyes. Same reason why I like to see the real GRand Canyon than to see a film on a small TV set.
As for the CD dead it is not my concern but more the sound reproduction in my living room...
davidsrsb said:
I do not mind about the industry of illusions and fashion. I think this another issue. Today there are still good audio music production (progressive music, classical, jazz, popular, etc..) and it is worth trying to preserve the good sound. Marketing stuff like Britney Spear will always be more popular than real music but real music still exists today...so there is a place for it!
I was listening to some live jazz recently and realised that the sound was heavily clipped. Hint - do you REALLY need to amplify drums in a small restaurant?
The sound engineer did not seem to be too bothered. Are people getting brainwashed into thinking that this is the way everything should sound?
The sound engineer did not seem to be too bothered. Are people getting brainwashed into thinking that this is the way everything should sound?
Compression is Old Hat
One of the things I think is so strange is that there was a time when all recorded music was on uncompressed 78 rpm phenolic discs. Then, there were Melchoir (sp?) compressors that were made with tubes. They were used because sound covered 120 dbs of dynamics, but phonograph records and magnetic tape could only do about 80 db.
Then we got the 44.1ksps 16bit linear thing on CDs, and the dynamic range was supposed to get better, except that in most cases it didn't because the electronics used to create rock and jazz and whatever were noisier than that.
Now we have "perceptual coding" Frauenhoffer MP3 that deliberately leaves out sounds that the perceptual coder doesn't think we are going to hear or that are "unimportant" to the sound. Which is like telling someone that they are going to try removing things from your dinner plate until you notice and then "perceptually encode" your dinner to only contain the food that is "important".
Let me tell you what technology has done for us. We can record our own music at a level of quantization and sampling rates that will blister the paint right off your walls.
The new sound cards from Creative / eMu will sample at 192ksps with 24 bit quantization all day. Thanks to 250GB hard drives, we could care less what the storage space is. We can record hours of music at 120dbs of dynamic range with a sampling rate that captures every nuance of the performance.
And it's cheap! A pair of factory matched Rode NT1A-MP microphones in the hard case with factory shock mounts is under $500 US. You can make your own really quiet OPA627 preamp for under $600, and the mike stands and booms are cheap. When you are done, the self noise of your home recording system is so low that you have over 100dbs of usable dynamics.
All that's left is for you to bring in your own local talent and burn up some disc drive space. When you are done, you can produce your own CDs, uncompressed, unequalized, uncontaminated. And at a cost to you that is less than you would pay for a top-quality power amp.
The big recording companies can try to push us around, but as the title at the top of the page says, we are the fanatics. If we want to step outside the box and do our own uncompressed recordings, we can.
We have the technology.
One of the things I think is so strange is that there was a time when all recorded music was on uncompressed 78 rpm phenolic discs. Then, there were Melchoir (sp?) compressors that were made with tubes. They were used because sound covered 120 dbs of dynamics, but phonograph records and magnetic tape could only do about 80 db.
Then we got the 44.1ksps 16bit linear thing on CDs, and the dynamic range was supposed to get better, except that in most cases it didn't because the electronics used to create rock and jazz and whatever were noisier than that.
Now we have "perceptual coding" Frauenhoffer MP3 that deliberately leaves out sounds that the perceptual coder doesn't think we are going to hear or that are "unimportant" to the sound. Which is like telling someone that they are going to try removing things from your dinner plate until you notice and then "perceptually encode" your dinner to only contain the food that is "important".
Let me tell you what technology has done for us. We can record our own music at a level of quantization and sampling rates that will blister the paint right off your walls.
The new sound cards from Creative / eMu will sample at 192ksps with 24 bit quantization all day. Thanks to 250GB hard drives, we could care less what the storage space is. We can record hours of music at 120dbs of dynamic range with a sampling rate that captures every nuance of the performance.
And it's cheap! A pair of factory matched Rode NT1A-MP microphones in the hard case with factory shock mounts is under $500 US. You can make your own really quiet OPA627 preamp for under $600, and the mike stands and booms are cheap. When you are done, the self noise of your home recording system is so low that you have over 100dbs of usable dynamics.
All that's left is for you to bring in your own local talent and burn up some disc drive space. When you are done, you can produce your own CDs, uncompressed, unequalized, uncontaminated. And at a cost to you that is less than you would pay for a top-quality power amp.
The big recording companies can try to push us around, but as the title at the top of the page says, we are the fanatics. If we want to step outside the box and do our own uncompressed recordings, we can.
We have the technology.
davidsrsb said:
You do when the guitarist is playing through a 500W 8x12 stack, and the bass player is running 2KW to compete. Acoustic drums are generally supposed to be about 60W, so keep the guitar to about 60W (transistor), and the bass to about double that. For valve amps try 25W guitar, and 50W bass.
Everyone seems to use more and more power, and the poor little drummer can't do anything about it - unless he's PA'd as well.
fab said:
Yes. Original multitrack recordings have very little compression. The final mix down to the CD is where most of the compression is added. You and I can't get at the multitrack recordings (nor would we want it- it takes a lot of training and some talent to mix the multitrack into a decent sounding two channel recording) but the guys selling songs for DL can. So they will be able to make a "quality" mp3 file where you and I are stuck with the cr*p CD as a source, at least until you can't buy newly pressed CDs anymore.
Maybe they make cr*ppy sounding CDs so they can sell a remixed version again to the same people who bought the first one...
I_F
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