HiFi Advice sought

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Moderater Note: This thread actually started here (gives some of the comments context).

dave :cop:

Bob4
Well, I really want to try and build my own audio system and also get advice on a video system to purchase . Unfortunately, I've been cursed with really good hearing and every system that I ever heard for less than $2000 (including speakers) sucks. A friend of mine told me to buy some good used stuff but I thought that had its own inherent problems so that led me to diy. I think some of the enclosure work might give me some trouble but I'm hoping that I might get some hand holding in here to help get it done.

Ken L
That response sounds like you wrote it while your wife was looking over your shoulder, you rascal you. Well, I'm all for a fella who behaves, even if it is coerced;)
 
Dave,
hinthint, ladies like open baffle speakers... :shhh:...:dodgy:...better if you blindfold her 1st, she needn't see at once the baffle is big like a door :D
haven't you got some frugalphile(tm) alnico paper cones for Gina? :)

Gina,
handholding has just started :) ... maybe you have a look in our speaker section, there should also be some discussion about open baffle speakers. Ask Dave, he is a :wiz: as far as cheapocheapo audio devices with terrific sonics are concerned; he owns the frugalphile(tm) trademark here :)

BTW, women hear in a different manner than men do ... and this manner is atleast as valid; don't get your confidence shattered by some rude male telling you what you ought to hear :) .
Another BTW, i have hardly heard a commercial speaker below $2000 which does not suck. Not to speak of a whole system for $2000.

Just reviewing my post, reading Ken's, grinning ear2ear :cheerful:
 
dice45
I know that at first glance $2000 seems undoable but here is how I figured it. I have $1000 budgeted for speakers. I already own a decent phonograph and a own a DVD player (weak link) that will play cd's and a good cassette deck so there will be $1000 for an amp and preamp. I think that is a doable budget without much compramise. I've seen good condition used Vandersteen 3's locally for much less than $1000 and new stuff like the Rega Jura is within the budget as well. I'm not so worried about the speakers because I'll be using my headphones most of the time anyway. So now that you know my objectives, where should I start Mr. Moderator?

Ken L
I do declare! You tongue has more sugar than the sweetest cane.
 
Gina,
have to admit, i am lost on your Q. :)
It is ys ago i purchased stuff. All home-built, either by me or buddies.
Hold it, i own a minidisc recorder from Sony i am quite happy with. MDS-JB930.
A very nice sounding device.

I once worked in a hifi store but apart from AudioReseach, Rowland, VTL, Spectral, Marl Levinson, i do not even remember the brand names.
Vandersteen? himmh, probably a speaker manufacturer.

I could tell you which phono cartridge to buy or which turntable or tonearm.

Gina said:
I know that at first glance $2000 seems undoable but here is how I figured it. I have $1000 budgeted for speakers. I already own a decent phonograph and a own a DVD player (weak link) that will play cd's and a good cassette deck so there will be $1000 for an amp and preamp. I think that is a doable budget without much compramise. I've seen good condition used Vandersteen 3's locally for much less than $1000 and new stuff like the Rega Jura is within the budget as well. I'm not so worried about the speakers because I'll be using my headphones most of the time anyway. So now that you know my objectives, where should I start Mr. Moderator?

The minidisc thingie i could recommend sounds like scattering priorities to me, considering your budget. Ummhh, budget .. i also would budget some time&patience :) and make a long-term schedule where i want to arrive sonically instead of how much money i want ot spend on which.

If you get acquainted with building your own audio gear, you might find that more satisfying and way more bang for the buck and you have influence on the sonics, you can shape the sound you want to have .. within limits of course.

I did not chase you in planet10's arms without reason, he knows how to get fancy sonics for a few bucks ... he will use some vintage tube gear probably and fullrange speakers with alnico magnets and paper cones. Does not cost a fortune, sings, makes music, makes you smile. The suggestions i have read from him are dirt-cheap and what i hear is that people are quite happy with them, it certainly is worth a try. Just order some papercone FR drivers and screw them in a big baffle and find out for some weeks if you like it. And then borrow good speakers from a buddy and look if you still can like them.
If someone would take my $$$ Fertin speakers away from me right now, well, i would ask Dave for some cheapocheapo papercones, saw a hole in an old door, screw them in and have beautiful music. Not kidding.

But to topic: as amp, you could build an ASKA kit, or you could go with PassDIY, what ever you feel you can manage as 1st project. You also could order and integrated tube amp kit from our member Gabevee. I am quite sure, you arrive at a much higher level sonically than if you buy used commercial stuff. And this will be the same with speakers, please ask the people in the speaker board as i have lost touch with enclosured speakers. Cannot give valid advice on existing kits or products.
You ask me where to start? find out what you really like, what you like for long-term listening. I bet you want to listen to music finally and not to equipment, right? :)
Tube amps or SolidState amps?
FR speaker or conventional 3-way, vented or closed? Tranmision lines? Backloaded horn speakers?
Audio is personal taste to a high extent. What suits me perfectly may not suit you (so please take my open baffle enthusiasm with a grain of salt :) ).
But trying out what suits you can be fun. :)
 
Ex-Moderator
Joined 2002
Hi Gina, welcome to the forums!:)

May I suggest a simple starting point, it may screw up the overall budget, but it might lead to more satisfaction in the long term.

I would support totally going frugalphile(TM), but for slightly different reasons. As a beginner to diy, start with simple projects, it can be very frustrating getting half way through a complex and expensive project and having to give up through lack of time, money, and understanding ( I know, I have been there!)

I would suggest using some of Dave's drainpipes with the Inverted Gainclone amp, ( do a search, they are mentioned frequently on this board). and that way you could put a system together for a couple of hundred dollars, that would probably sound better than you imagine, and if you decide to procede further, can be used as the basis for a second system.

Good luck:)
 
dice45
I think I should start with a preamplifier. The Zen projects look doable but they appear to need a matching preamp so that should probably be where to begin. See my comments below concerning "frugalphilia".

Planet 10
I don't think the frugalphile route is for me. I can't have the industrial (rough) appearance match my apartment motif. Even though I'm not a spouse, the SAF I've read about on this forum definitely applies to me.

pinkmouse
Thanks for the advice. I think a good way to get my feet wet is to start putting together a parts matrix so I can see exactly what the raw material will cost to conclusion. This will minimize some of the surprises that can kill a project or bring it to a crawl.

I want to concentrate on only one build effort. I am not in this diy for life, I just want to build what I need and repair it if it breaks. I want to build a preamp and amplifier pair that will keep me happy for the rest of my days. A pair that is dead quiet and sweet sounding. It must create an excellent image and not fade or clip when driven to full volume. It should also look presentable and fit within my budget which is $1000, am I asking too much? Well, if you guys help me out, my girlfriends might get so excited about what I've built that you may just get a flood of hot sexy girls joining this site and suddenly finding audio geeks irresistable;)
 
Gina,
good, preamp.
What for a preamp do you need?
Line level only (CD-player, DVD, tuner etc.) or do you als want to run a phono turntable with a MM cartridge (5mV @ 0dB)? Or maybe you prefer MC cartridges (0.2mV @ 0dB)) ?

How important is a luxury circuitry for tape recorders? (source/tape monitoring, pos.feedback blocking etc)?

Solid state of tube preamp?

Housing: how important is the look? I may have some advice here too but ask Peter Daniel, he is the housing :wiz:.
BTW, i would try the circuit out on a breadboard and if you know what you want, then buy or design an appropriate housing.

I want to build a preamp and amplifier pair that will keep me happy for the rest of my days.
Gina, <soothing voice> let me put my arm around your shoulder, nothing wrong, everything cool, lets relax, have you taken your medicine?, look, outside the sun is shining, let's go in the garden ...
:) You know what i mean? No, i am not harrassing you nor offending you in any way. Your wish is just describing audio nirwana, the dream of any audiophile, but few of us will ever reach it at all.
:wiz:... where is my crystal ball .. ah here it is ... you won't reach audio heaven in your 1st try. But you will have a good success, you will be excited because the thingie works that you built with your hands and you will learn a lot .... and after a while you will find out your 1st try does not meet all your expectations and you find out what you like and what not ...and for your next try you will start to develop own ideas how to arrive sonically where you want and ... .... for your next try you hone your ideas to make it even better and you find yourself discussing circuit details with the experts. Then the day comes when a self-proclaimed expert tells you that your audio stuff cannot sound good and why and in great detail and you discover you do not care, you like the sonics, you designed it that way, do not even bother to tell him.

:scratch2: did i mention how highly subjective, how oriented to personal taste audio is? That Nelson Pass or Dave or Peter or Ken or Fred or Jocko or me like sonics of a given device is by no means a guarantee *you* will like it.

One word to frugalphilia(tm) : it can happen inside a beautiful housing. It will enable you to have more tries within your budget.
 
suggest you consider

www.bottlehead.com

a Foreplay preamp for 149.00
a set of Paramour 2A3 monoblocks for 549

All within beginner level, look sharp - are audophile quality and leave enough nickels left over to splurge on High Efficiency Speakers - the 2A3's have an excellent reputation within the High
Resolution Sound community for sounding good at low cost.

The kits are reasonably priced and well thought of, you would have more than adequate resources for assistance, the designs are well known and debugged. These circuits are reasonably simple and should put together pretty easily.

You don't seem interested in actually building something from scratch - While it is doable, it takes time energy and effort to make something from nothing - and it helps to have mechanical skills and a small shop, etc.

One thing I like about the above scenario, is that it leaves enough left over for really nice HE drivers - which is going to be the really difficult part of that budget.


My humble musings

Ken
 
Ken L
Thank you for that link. It looks indeed very doable and definitely within my budget. High efficiency speaker elements; as a general rule I don't particularly like them. I like my music jumping out of the silence so I don't want to hear any trace of amplifier hiss or hum. All of the tube gear that I've heard fails miserably in this regard and even though it is spacious and beautiful in the high registers tubes that I've heard don't have the grunt on the basso that thrills my vacant center:bigeyes:

dice45
Yes, I definitely want a phono stage and I would like circuits in it for both MC and MM cartridges. Come to think of it, a pot to match the cartridge impedence would be a good idea too if it doesn't degrade the perfomance. The tape/record circuit should be as clean as possible. All the gain and level adjustments belong on the cassette deck and not on the preamp IMHO. I have a very nice Pro Revox so I can afford to say this but I understand the need for this kind of 'luxury' for people who record on their VCRs. As far as the concept of Audio Nirvana: you would be surprised
 
...how satisfied a girl can be when she gets (or close enough to) what she wants. In my own case I love things more deeply the longer they bring me joy and my nature is such that I don't tire or become bored with good things so don't count on me coming back for a tweak once I achieve my goal. I'm very loyal to people and things and tend to be a bit nostalgic. Of course, some things are very easy to shake from memory but I digress. Hmmm, the enclosures will definitely be a challenge for me. I am afraid of power tools and yes, I'm afraid that I will break a nail but I would suffer the experience if it helps me achieve my goal. If Peter Daniel is the true wizard of the metal then maybe he will guide me through the rough parts. Are you listening Sir Aluminous of Audio?
 
have you heard any of the 2A3's and/or other low power tube setups?

Gina said:

All of the tube gear that I've heard fails miserably in this regard and even though it is spacious and beautiful in the high registers tubes that I've heard don't have the grunt on the basso that thrills my vacant center:bigeyes:


The type of system I am recommending is not usually sold retail and I would expect a very limited availability of this type stuff in a retail environment even in NYC, although I really have no idea.

It would not be a surprise if you had never heard this type of stuff. Few people have. Generally, you would have to almost work to seek it out, if you hadn't heard one at a friends home or some such.

People don't like tubes for various reasons. If you don't like tubes because they seem odd or you think they look funny, etc. that's fine.There are definite SS and tube contingents within the high resolution audio field. I'm a tube kinda guy and am unable to make good recommendations on SS stuff.

If tubes are an option to you aesthetically, you might want to seek out some of the low-powered tube/High Efficiciency setups and give them a listen, they are essentially the cutting edge of high resolution audio. If you never heard a similar setup it can be far better than you would believe possible.

Im not that low powered yet - I'm still around 18 watts with a 300B (tube) push pull amp, but I'm moving in that direction. Trust me, you would never have those criticisms of how my setup sounds.

Somehow, you just seemed so sweet I never thought of you as one of those _solid state_ girls;)

Ken
 
A word of advice on your first projects. If you're going frugophile and working with a budget. Count up how much all the parts and materials will cost, then double it, that'll be the true cost. Don't doubt me, you'd be amaised how much all those little things you forgot about cost (screws, drill bits, tapping bits. nuts, wood stain, wood glue etc etc etc...).
 
JoeBob
Forgive me if I sound stupid but what are tapping bits? I would also ask why I need wood at all? I think I may have mentioned earlier that I'm probably not going to do the diy thing for speakers and I love the look of polished metal so wherefore the wood? Your point about being conservative is well taken but $1000 in parts for an amp and preamp seems generous enough to make few significant comprimises in a diy project. Am I wrong?

If any of out there have completed projects with parts list/prices that you would be willing to send me it could be helpful in planning my project. I should mention that my email has an exclusivity filter which only allows email addresses on my address book to get to me so if we are going to communicate, I will need your email address.

chris ma
Well, I've always been a girl that likes things that look, feel and sound natural;)

Ken L
Point taken, I've no objection to a glass solution but I can tell you that I have heard some expensive tube gear and felt it needed more. I heard some guys Krell KSA-100 play the Beatles ("I saw her standing there") and absolutely loved the way it recreated bass but the upper octaves, well, let me be kind and say it could only be described as unimpressive.
 
Gina, I was just mentioning several things which you might need. Some people like wood, others don't. And tapping bits are the bits you use to thread holes, to fit screws. I didn't mean those things only, you might choose to use nuts instead of tapping holes on your heatsinks, but you will need to buy tools and what not you don't have, and you are going to want to add that to your budget.

You can easilly build an amazing amp and preamp for $1000, or you can easilly spend twice as much. My first DIY project cost me almost double what I expected, I didn't mind, the results were great, but it always costs more than you expect.
 
JoeBob
Well, I got a really neat 110 piece screw and nut driver kit from Home Depot and a Weller portasol pen soldering iron kit and vacuum desoldering tool but thats about it:goodbad: I'm hoping to avoid a power tool purchase and am on the lookout for mechanically inclined men to flirt with. As you have probably already noticed, I'm not averse to using my feminine charm to get men to do stuff for me;)

I've been reading on the Aleph-X thread (boy is that a book or what?) and I think I want to try and put together some X-variant monoblocks but what kind of preamp will drive them? As I understand it, there aren't any X-preamp projects? A good friend of mine whose opinion I respect says that the Pass commercial stuff is just what I should be looking at. I've never heard any Pass products but I will be scheduling an audition soon. In the meantime...

Peter Daniel
...I don't want to miss out on the PCB rev B purchase but I haven't been able to get hifiZen's emails because my filter isn't allowing it to get through. Since you can reach me by email, please send me hifiZens email or the payment information for 4 PCB's. As far as Krell on the bottom and glass on top, I think that's a great idea but can you do that for $1000 including a preamp? I've heard that using multiple amps to drive multiple speaker elements is the way to go but remember my budget of $1000 when making recommendations.
 
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