The great philosophers Penn and Teller once said that if a major beakthrough in our understanding of the Universe happens, it probably won't be announced on The Tonight Show by a washed-up dancer.
There's a corollary: when a major revolution in all of quantum and solid state physics occurs, it probably won't be from a guy selling hifi gadgets out of his garage.
There's a corollary: when a major revolution in all of quantum and solid state physics occurs, it probably won't be from a guy selling hifi gadgets out of his garage.
Interesting article on an "Analog Fuzzy Audio Processor for Loudspeaker Systems". It goes along with this thread:
http://brian.prohosting.com/fuzzy.pdf
--
Brian
http://brian.prohosting.com/fuzzy.pdf
--
Brian
"I do have one reservation, though - If this is "the greatest thing since grits"....
Because of the extreme prices quoted mainly, and therefore very limited market penetration.
Also getting one's head around the concept that putting some kind of obscure mix of materials around a wire can change sound.
Hell, most guys here refuse to believe or understand that cable dielectrics of differing materials or colours can influence the sound.
The 'stuff' I speak of has strong sonic effect and is cheap, although difficult for most people to obtain.
The effect of Mpingos can be heard clearly by those who have heard them, but nobody bought them because they are too expensive, and the mystical marketing department words probably do not help either.
I have heard Mpingos and agree that they do influence system sound, however I do not particularly like their sound.
Peter, if you can get the opportunity to try the Bybee purifiers for free, by all means do so.
I expect that they will have a sonic effect, maybe not completely pleasant, and the price may not match the benefit.
Eric.
Because of the extreme prices quoted mainly, and therefore very limited market penetration.
Also getting one's head around the concept that putting some kind of obscure mix of materials around a wire can change sound.
Hell, most guys here refuse to believe or understand that cable dielectrics of differing materials or colours can influence the sound.
The 'stuff' I speak of has strong sonic effect and is cheap, although difficult for most people to obtain.
The effect of Mpingos can be heard clearly by those who have heard them, but nobody bought them because they are too expensive, and the mystical marketing department words probably do not help either.
I have heard Mpingos and agree that they do influence system sound, however I do not particularly like their sound.
Peter, if you can get the opportunity to try the Bybee purifiers for free, by all means do so.
I expect that they will have a sonic effect, maybe not completely pleasant, and the price may not match the benefit.
Eric.
JUST A THOUGHT...
Hi,
Every one continent,culture or what has has it's favoured accesories for hi-fi.
Quite likely just dependng om local press and hype but who knows?
People talk about the mpingo stuff,they may never have heard of fluxblusters and so on.
Would it be a dead end if we were to collect that into a single thread?
We could even add cables,analogue i/c l/s and powercords or what have you as well.
One could then discuss ideas about the composition of said accessory and why it seems to do what is is prceived to do?
With the Cryo and Bybee stuff currntly running it just flushed, err crossed my mind.
???
Hi,
Every one continent,culture or what has has it's favoured accesories for hi-fi.
Quite likely just dependng om local press and hype but who knows?
People talk about the mpingo stuff,they may never have heard of fluxblusters and so on.
Would it be a dead end if we were to collect that into a single thread?
We could even add cables,analogue i/c l/s and powercords or what have you as well.
One could then discuss ideas about the composition of said accessory and why it seems to do what is is prceived to do?
With the Cryo and Bybee stuff currntly running it just flushed, err crossed my mind.
???
BUZZBEE.
Hi,
Looking back,I think it would be both wise and interesting to concentrate on what said product claims to do in general.
How the results are achieved is of course the most ineresting part obviously but I would advise against concentrating on a particular brandname,rather pick a name for the application.
What can be measured?What not?
Does any of our members have experience with this?
What say the press and so on?
Nice weekend,
Hi,
Looking back,I think it would be both wise and interesting to concentrate on what said product claims to do in general.
How the results are achieved is of course the most ineresting part obviously but I would advise against concentrating on a particular brandname,rather pick a name for the application.
What can be measured?What not?
Does any of our members have experience with this?
What say the press and so on?
Nice weekend,
As MRehorst was good enough to quote my sig earlier on, I thought I better put my Ha'porth in!
The thing that makes me cynical about all these hyper expensive tweaks, is that, the price.
In general I am a cynic, but despite the fact I could see no physical reason for it , I tried using Cat5 cable as connection cables from my rectifier to my gainclone amp, and I was pleased with the result.
But, if this was done as a commercial product, the sleeving would be a different colour, and the price would be about £1000 a metre, for exactly the same product. It would have a flashy web site, with loads of technobo**ocks, and glowing reveiws from al the latest trendy hi end mags, simply because the manufacturers had bought some ad space.
Then the psychology kicks in. People would buy the product at this horrendous price, possibly hear a small improvement, which is tiny in relation to that produced by well designed and engineered kit that could be bought, (or built, as we are on a DIY website), for a fraction of the price. Then they have to justify this purchase to themselves, and so the hype factor comes in, as they broadcast the "New Way" to all and sundry to avoid undermining there own self esteme and "good taste".
From my memories of studying economics, ( a long time ago!), the availabilty of products against price, should be that of a bell shaped curve. I bet if these high end tweeks were plotted this way it would be skewed badly towards higher prices!
Rant over...
Eric- don't keep us in suspense, tell what this magic material is so we can try it for ourselves
The thing that makes me cynical about all these hyper expensive tweaks, is that, the price.
In general I am a cynic, but despite the fact I could see no physical reason for it , I tried using Cat5 cable as connection cables from my rectifier to my gainclone amp, and I was pleased with the result.
But, if this was done as a commercial product, the sleeving would be a different colour, and the price would be about £1000 a metre, for exactly the same product. It would have a flashy web site, with loads of technobo**ocks, and glowing reveiws from al the latest trendy hi end mags, simply because the manufacturers had bought some ad space.
Then the psychology kicks in. People would buy the product at this horrendous price, possibly hear a small improvement, which is tiny in relation to that produced by well designed and engineered kit that could be bought, (or built, as we are on a DIY website), for a fraction of the price. Then they have to justify this purchase to themselves, and so the hype factor comes in, as they broadcast the "New Way" to all and sundry to avoid undermining there own self esteme and "good taste".
From my memories of studying economics, ( a long time ago!), the availabilty of products against price, should be that of a bell shaped curve. I bet if these high end tweeks were plotted this way it would be skewed badly towards higher prices!
Rant over...
Eric- don't keep us in suspense, tell what this magic material is so we can try it for ourselves
White Magic....
"Eric- don't keep us in suspense, tell what this magic material is so we can try it for ourselves"
Al, I could tell, but then I would have to kill you.
I have spent 30 years studying many many aspects of all the sciences (mainstream and alternate) before coming to predictions and homing in on the right 'stuff', so sorry I can't tell for now.
This is not intended as conceit, rather keeping a commercial opportunity close to my chest.
This need not be expensive and easily incorporated into new at production level, or existing systems, so as I see it, it may be a pleasant improvement to all audio and visual systems, even become standard equipment.
The first step in this road to Damascus is to understand what your ears are telling you.
I fully agree that extreme retail prices on some tweaks invite great suspicion, especially when clothed in extraordinary claims and explanations.
I have a little more homework to do in terms of formally backing up some of my findings, and then I can give honest explanations to support such a product.
This is not black magic, and need not be expensive.
Eric.
"Eric- don't keep us in suspense, tell what this magic material is so we can try it for ourselves"
Al, I could tell, but then I would have to kill you.
I have spent 30 years studying many many aspects of all the sciences (mainstream and alternate) before coming to predictions and homing in on the right 'stuff', so sorry I can't tell for now.
This is not intended as conceit, rather keeping a commercial opportunity close to my chest.
This need not be expensive and easily incorporated into new at production level, or existing systems, so as I see it, it may be a pleasant improvement to all audio and visual systems, even become standard equipment.
The first step in this road to Damascus is to understand what your ears are telling you.
I fully agree that extreme retail prices on some tweaks invite great suspicion, especially when clothed in extraordinary claims and explanations.
I have a little more homework to do in terms of formally backing up some of my findings, and then I can give honest explanations to support such a product.
This is not black magic, and need not be expensive.
Eric.
ah, Pinkmouse
I knew that I liked you
Must be that I sensed a kindred soul
You are a positive person but say you are a cynic.
I sincerely try to be a positive person and aspire to look at life and people in a positive framework, although I don't always achieve this.
Yet life and experiences cause a shift to cynical skeptic (or skeptical cynic) all too frequently -
maintaining a proper balance between the two ( don't always achieve this either) seems almost as profound as the meaning of life at times
Ken
pinkmouse said:
I knew that I liked you
Must be that I sensed a kindred soul
You are a positive person but say you are a cynic.
I sincerely try to be a positive person and aspire to look at life and people in a positive framework, although I don't always achieve this.
Yet life and experiences cause a shift to cynical skeptic (or skeptical cynic) all too frequently -
maintaining a proper balance between the two ( don't always achieve this either) seems almost as profound as the meaning of life at times
Ken
SUFFER AND LEARN.
Ken,
Come to Bruges for a good meal at the "Duc de Bourgogne"
and you'll be cured.
Promise.
Re:Bybee,a lot is given away already at the site itself.
Concentrate on Cooper pairs and the way electrons travel and you may see a broader picture.
(sorry to spoil the fun Eric)
Cheers,
Ken,
Come to Bruges for a good meal at the "Duc de Bourgogne"
and you'll be cured.
Promise.
Re:Bybee,a lot is given away already at the site itself.
Concentrate on Cooper pairs and the way electrons travel and you may see a broader picture.
(sorry to spoil the fun Eric)
Cheers,
Bybee love Bye bye happiness I think I'm gonna cry
From:
http://www.bybeetech.com./
"Bybee Technologies has developed devices fabricated from ceramics doped with oxides of rare-earth metals such as zirconium and neodymium."
"In addition to being near-superconductive, Bybee Quantum Purifiers are electrically passive and stable in any circuit. They induce no phase shift whatsoever, and are totally non-reactive—meaning there is no reactance between capacitance and inductance.
These qualities are beneficial in numerous ways. When placed between an amplifier's power transformer and diode bridge, for example, the Quantum Purifier eliminates undesirable impedance mismatches. In an amplifier-to-speaker connection, the absence of reactance creates an optimal signal transfer and presents an easier load to the amplifier. When transmitting digital information, the Bybee Quantum Purifier eliminates the overshoot and ringing that can occur in the leading edge of the square wave. This type of distortion is a major contributor to the harshness and glare often associated with digital sound."
I don't understand how a theoretical physicist can make claims like this that fly in the face of even the most basic electrical engineering. Reactance is the inductive or capacitive portion of an impedance so the first statement is rather puzzling.
How does a nonreactive device eliminate impedance mismatch in one case (diodes transformer) and contribute to a changed load on the amplifier in other, all with no reactive impedance?!! I don't understand how a nonreactive circuit is going to counteract the effects of overshoot on a square wave. The claims about phonons would require a physicist in that area of research to discuss. I am not qualified to discuss those claims but passed on these claims to one of the most published researchers in the field and await a reply. There are plenty of papers on phonons on the web for the truly curious. I have never heard the products but am reminded of the furor over the Shakti Stones which I never did get to change the sound in any of the several systems I tried it on. At least Ben Piazza never claimed to be a physicist but the white paper makes some questionable claims. There may be things that the Bybee Quantum Purifiers do to the sound, I don't know. The inclusion of ferrite clamps on RFI could be an effect. I have used the versalabs RFI suppression products whose effect can be measured. I am very surprised at the fact no seems to have made any measurements on the Bybee that I can find other than series resistance. I wonder how one can be a theoretical physicist and leave no record of any published research on the web. I am open minded but have a hard time shelling out money for a product whose claims seem to be based on undocumented science of the type for which no verifiable measurements exist. These technical claims are as ridiculous to a second year engineering student as to a Ph.D. physicist.
Oh I forgot, neodymium is a rare earth metal but zirconium is a transition metal like gold or copper. You would think a physicist could get even this right.
http://www.chemicalelements.com/groups/rareearth.html
From:
http://www.bybeetech.com./
"Bybee Technologies has developed devices fabricated from ceramics doped with oxides of rare-earth metals such as zirconium and neodymium."
"In addition to being near-superconductive, Bybee Quantum Purifiers are electrically passive and stable in any circuit. They induce no phase shift whatsoever, and are totally non-reactive—meaning there is no reactance between capacitance and inductance.
These qualities are beneficial in numerous ways. When placed between an amplifier's power transformer and diode bridge, for example, the Quantum Purifier eliminates undesirable impedance mismatches. In an amplifier-to-speaker connection, the absence of reactance creates an optimal signal transfer and presents an easier load to the amplifier. When transmitting digital information, the Bybee Quantum Purifier eliminates the overshoot and ringing that can occur in the leading edge of the square wave. This type of distortion is a major contributor to the harshness and glare often associated with digital sound."
I don't understand how a theoretical physicist can make claims like this that fly in the face of even the most basic electrical engineering. Reactance is the inductive or capacitive portion of an impedance so the first statement is rather puzzling.
How does a nonreactive device eliminate impedance mismatch in one case (diodes transformer) and contribute to a changed load on the amplifier in other, all with no reactive impedance?!! I don't understand how a nonreactive circuit is going to counteract the effects of overshoot on a square wave. The claims about phonons would require a physicist in that area of research to discuss. I am not qualified to discuss those claims but passed on these claims to one of the most published researchers in the field and await a reply. There are plenty of papers on phonons on the web for the truly curious. I have never heard the products but am reminded of the furor over the Shakti Stones which I never did get to change the sound in any of the several systems I tried it on. At least Ben Piazza never claimed to be a physicist but the white paper makes some questionable claims. There may be things that the Bybee Quantum Purifiers do to the sound, I don't know. The inclusion of ferrite clamps on RFI could be an effect. I have used the versalabs RFI suppression products whose effect can be measured. I am very surprised at the fact no seems to have made any measurements on the Bybee that I can find other than series resistance. I wonder how one can be a theoretical physicist and leave no record of any published research on the web. I am open minded but have a hard time shelling out money for a product whose claims seem to be based on undocumented science of the type for which no verifiable measurements exist. These technical claims are as ridiculous to a second year engineering student as to a Ph.D. physicist.
Oh I forgot, neodymium is a rare earth metal but zirconium is a transition metal like gold or copper. You would think a physicist could get even this right.
http://www.chemicalelements.com/groups/rareearth.html
Bybee, Baby????
Hi Fred,
Seldom I have read more crap about a product than this one.
Special kind of electrons??? HaHa.
Superconductivity at room temperature Hahahahahaha
Special voids??????
I love it, I adore it. I am fond of special voids.....
I had to do a lot of solid state chemistry for my study and it is a pity I never encountered these highly creative writings before...
Hi Fred,
Seldom I have read more crap about a product than this one.
Special kind of electrons???
HaHa.Superconductivity at room temperature Hahahahahaha
Special voids??????
I love it, I adore it. I am fond of special voids.....
I had to do a lot of solid state chemistry for my study and it is a pity I never encountered these highly creative writings before...
Re: Bybee, Baby????
Here's my favorite. It was on his web site originally but was removed when the previous bunch of nonsensical doubletalk was replaced with some other nonsensical doubletalk. I've saved this one for posterity.
<i>The Bybee Quantum Mechanical Filter that was developed from this research is a device that creates a barrier and literally sizes, cleans, aligns and stabilizes individual electrons and throws out the bad/irregular electrons. The heavy and well damped mass around the purification devices is to absorb these discarded electrons.</i>
se
Elso Kwak said:
Here's my favorite. It was on his web site originally but was removed when the previous bunch of nonsensical doubletalk was replaced with some other nonsensical doubletalk. I've saved this one for posterity.
<i>The Bybee Quantum Mechanical Filter that was developed from this research is a device that creates a barrier and literally sizes, cleans, aligns and stabilizes individual electrons and throws out the bad/irregular electrons. The heavy and well damped mass around the purification devices is to absorb these discarded electrons.</i>
se
Re: SUFFER AND LEARN.
You are not spoiling my fun - indeed understanding the mechanisms is fun itself.
Eric.
PS - Listening to whingers is not.
fdegrove said:....Re:Bybee,a lot is given away already at the site itself.
Concentrate on Cooper pairs and the way electrons travel and you may see a broader picture.
(sorry to spoil the fun Eric)
Cheers,
You are not spoiling my fun - indeed understanding the mechanisms is fun itself.
Eric.
PS - Listening to whingers is not.
Re: Bybee, Baby????
Studies of acoustic wave propagation's of both phonons and ultrasonic regime
If you going to make stuff up to sell a product, at least stick to physics that only a few people stand a chance to understand enough to dispute. When you flagrantly disregard even the most basic electrical engineering principles that a dummy like me can dispute, you're tap dancing on thin ice. A cynical person might suspect that these may be products based on existing technology that might not sound exotic enough for the hard-core audiophile, especially at $80 a pop. Base it on trendy modern physics research, and throw in a few terms that even a non technical person can grab from a few scientific papers and journals and you have a revolutionary product. Throw a few sentences about audio engineering that the partially technical literate person (i.e. audio reviewer) feels comfortable with, and you are all set. we should have a contest to create the most convincing techno babble product literature on the forum. I could do better much better than this with 30 minutes of effort. This is the electronics equivalent of homeopathy. You know the old saying though, "Never give a sucker an even break." How come in any industry but High End audio they call this fraud and have laws against it?
Studies of acoustic wave propagation's of both phonons and ultrasonic regime
Elso Kwak said:Hi Fred,
Seldom I have read more crap about a product than this one.
Special kind of electrons???
Superconductivity at room temperature Hahahahahaha
Special voids??????
I love it, I adore it. I am fond of special voids.....
I had to do a lot of solid state chemistry for my study and it is a pity I never encountered these highly creative writings before...
If you going to make stuff up to sell a product, at least stick to physics that only a few people stand a chance to understand enough to dispute. When you flagrantly disregard even the most basic electrical engineering principles that a dummy like me can dispute, you're tap dancing on thin ice. A cynical person might suspect that these may be products based on existing technology that might not sound exotic enough for the hard-core audiophile, especially at $80 a pop. Base it on trendy modern physics research, and throw in a few terms that even a non technical person can grab from a few scientific papers and journals and you have a revolutionary product. Throw a few sentences about audio engineering that the partially technical literate person (i.e. audio reviewer) feels comfortable with, and you are all set. we should have a contest to create the most convincing techno babble product literature on the forum. I could do better much better than this with 30 minutes of effort. This is the electronics equivalent of homeopathy. You know the old saying though, "Never give a sucker an even break." How come in any industry but High End audio they call this fraud and have laws against it?
Poetic Licence ?
Phred,
I am sure you could write a witty product advertisement, but I think we need to keep in mind that although the Bybee text is somewhat non sensical, that fact alone does not deny the fact that listeners are hearing sonic effects in their systems when using them, and stating that they like the effect.
I am cautious, but I am curious about these things too, and I do fully believe that they do effect sonics.
I am interested to know the magnitude and nature of the changes, and the long term user view of them.
Badly written explanations do not worry me in the slightest, especially if the reasons are that an unqualified person wrote them, or for the purpose of concealing fine details for commercial reasons, and Jack Bybee is most certainly not the first do to do so.
Eric.
Phred,
I am sure you could write a witty product advertisement, but I think we need to keep in mind that although the Bybee text is somewhat non sensical, that fact alone does not deny the fact that listeners are hearing sonic effects in their systems when using them, and stating that they like the effect.
I am cautious, but I am curious about these things too, and I do fully believe that they do effect sonics.
I am interested to know the magnitude and nature of the changes, and the long term user view of them.
Badly written explanations do not worry me in the slightest, especially if the reasons are that an unqualified person wrote them, or for the purpose of concealing fine details for commercial reasons, and Jack Bybee is most certainly not the first do to do so.
Eric.
Green Electrons
Yeah.. and I am using green electrons. What are these...? Well just generated by wind, biomassfermentation or something like that.
The author of the Bybee has taken a lot of interesting terms like:
Superconductivity (sounds intereresting!)
Special electrons,
special voids, (special is always good for sales....Any custumer wants something "special")
reactance,
overshoot,
ringing,
rare earth elements (this one works very well for the layman) [I have been a salesman! The combination of "rare" and "earth" does it I believe]
Neodymium,
Zirconium (both sounds interesting and mysterious) (Just two elements taken from the table of chemical elements.)
phonons (sounds like electrons/photons/ phono?)
Now take a blender or mixer and put all these ingredients in and make up a story vaguely related to current theory of electricity and conductivity.
The result brilliant!
A genius at work ... with words though
The Shati Stone is even more nice.
For some interesting reading go here:
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=tweaks&n=45552&highlight=shakti+elso&r=&session=
Hi Steve,Steve Eddy said:
Here's my favorite. It was on his web site originally but was removed when the previous bunch of nonsensical doubletalk was replaced with some other nonsensical doubletalk. I've saved this one for posterity.
<i>The Bybee Quantum Mechanical Filter that was developed from this research is a device that creates a barrier and literally sizes, cleans, aligns and stabilizes individual electrons and throws out the bad/irregular electrons. The heavy and well damped mass around the purification devices is to absorb these discarded electrons.</i>
se
Yeah.. and I am using green electrons. What are these...? Well just generated by wind, biomassfermentation or something like that.
The author of the Bybee has taken a lot of interesting terms like:
Superconductivity (sounds intereresting!)
Special electrons,
special voids, (special is always good for sales....Any custumer wants something "special")
reactance,
overshoot,
ringing,
rare earth elements (this one works very well for the layman) [I have been a salesman! The combination of "rare" and "earth" does it I believe]
Neodymium,
Zirconium (both sounds interesting and mysterious) (Just two elements taken from the table of chemical elements.)
phonons (sounds like electrons/photons/ phono?)
Now take a blender or mixer and put all these ingredients in and make up a story vaguely related to current theory of electricity and conductivity.
The result brilliant!
A genius at work ... with words though
The Shati Stone is even more nice.
For some interesting reading go here:
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?forum=tweaks&n=45552&highlight=shakti+elso&r=&session=
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