I've owned my Super-T for a couple of months now and I've recently swapped from some home-made speaker cables (based around co-ax wire) to some QED multistrand cables. The difference in sound between these two types of cables is almost too small to measure.
Does this mean that these amps are not so dependent on the quality of speaker cable or is there a specific cable I should be using.
Does this mean that these amps are not so dependent on the quality of speaker cable or is there a specific cable I should be using.
Here's an experiment to try. Hook up your speakers with your normal cable. Now insert a 2 ohm series resistor to simulate the use of thin wire. Hear a difference? I'll bet you do.
Try the same thing but throw a 10nF capacitor across the amp output to simulate a high capacitance cable. Hear a difference? Very often you can actually cause an amp to break into full oscillation doing that, which I assure you is audible.
OK, care to modify your assertion?
Try the same thing but throw a 10nF capacitor across the amp output to simulate a high capacitance cable. Hear a difference? Very often you can actually cause an amp to break into full oscillation doing that, which I assure you is audible.
OK, care to modify your assertion?
SY said:
OK, I concede your point. But anybody using 2 ohms resistive cables or 10nF capacitive cables is not in the HiFi business but in the effects business. Going to such extremes you can prove anything. I can prove that the platter weight of a CD player makes a difference by putting a 3-pound brick on it. Sure you hear the difference. So?
Jan Didden
I wouldn't argue that point- as much as I think that cable voodoo is, well, voodoo, there are engineering and audible differences between some cables used with some speakers and some amplifiers. The statement "it never makes a difference" is just not correct. Even hard-core rationalists like you and me can understand this.
2 Ohm speaker cable? Maybe a 100 mOhm resistor to simulate a thin wire. (And even 100 mOhm is a really thin or really long piece of copper).
Same argument as before...but since this is a Class D forum I will point out the number of amps here that have 100 nF - 1 uF across there outputs, which oscillate very audibly
.More seriously, 'classical' amplifer oscillation is a completly different scenario to when the amplifer is operating normally (i.e. psuedo linearly) and cant be compared in terms of sound quality.
SY said:I dunno, should you?
Now drinking Diet Pepsi- it's a little earlier over here!
I should, and I do. I paid for it. Seriously, IMHO Italian wines in general are better to my taste than French ones for the same price. Having been married to a woman who had been married before to an Italian wine distributor (you know Destro?) probably helped. It's complicated, I know.
OK, its off-topic.
G'night.
Jan Didden
Go ahead and think that wire doesn't matter
I long time ago, I noticed some kind of minor differences with speaker wire. better bass.
About a year ago, I got my system really sounding good. It was just amazing. For some reason I can't recall, I'd torn it down and put it back again. For over a month, I was at a loss why it just didn't do what it did. That being the "live" sounding like it was.
It just never "did it" anymore for me. This was over a period of a month of listening.
Then I recalled that before I'd had some modest priced ~$0.50/ft Carol silver plated 14 gauge wire in the system before, and I'd "upgraded" to some 12 gauge monster cable that I got at a good price.
I put back in the silver plated wire and what I had lost was found again. :>)
In fact, when I did the change, I had my favorite live SACD recording in, and just paused it, and did the change hot. I was amazed at the percieved volume change in the mids and highs, and the bass got more lively too.
Those of you who think you can calculate it, go for it, but I suspect you'll not be able to measure what matters. I have over 40k worth of measuring equipment, and its mostly useless for making any correlation to which wire should be best. The very best amp I've ever heard was designed and built by a guy without a scope! He just listened it in.
I think it helps if your system is capable of HIFI though, and that's not always the case. If for example, I had a different CD player, any of my others, I'd think it might be alot harder to notice the difference.
I suspect people who don't hear differences in speaker wire likely have a very weak link or or maybe some amps are more sensitive to it. Its not subtle in my experience if all cylinders are firing. I also don't think you need to spend a fortune to get there. I'd guess the Monster stuff was tuned to sound good with todays midfi audio, which pretty much sucks, and it smooths out harshness.
Best Regards
Mike
p.s. I also don't find quick changes to be very useful. I think my most conclusive and repeatable opinions happen when I listen over days, then make a change.
I long time ago, I noticed some kind of minor differences with speaker wire. better bass.
About a year ago, I got my system really sounding good. It was just amazing. For some reason I can't recall, I'd torn it down and put it back again. For over a month, I was at a loss why it just didn't do what it did. That being the "live" sounding like it was.
It just never "did it" anymore for me. This was over a period of a month of listening.
Then I recalled that before I'd had some modest priced ~$0.50/ft Carol silver plated 14 gauge wire in the system before, and I'd "upgraded" to some 12 gauge monster cable that I got at a good price.
I put back in the silver plated wire and what I had lost was found again. :>)
In fact, when I did the change, I had my favorite live SACD recording in, and just paused it, and did the change hot. I was amazed at the percieved volume change in the mids and highs, and the bass got more lively too.
Those of you who think you can calculate it, go for it, but I suspect you'll not be able to measure what matters. I have over 40k worth of measuring equipment, and its mostly useless for making any correlation to which wire should be best. The very best amp I've ever heard was designed and built by a guy without a scope! He just listened it in.
I think it helps if your system is capable of HIFI though, and that's not always the case. If for example, I had a different CD player, any of my others, I'd think it might be alot harder to notice the difference.
I suspect people who don't hear differences in speaker wire likely have a very weak link or or maybe some amps are more sensitive to it. Its not subtle in my experience if all cylinders are firing. I also don't think you need to spend a fortune to get there. I'd guess the Monster stuff was tuned to sound good with todays midfi audio, which pretty much sucks, and it smooths out harshness.
Best Regards
Mike
p.s. I also don't find quick changes to be very useful. I think my most conclusive and repeatable opinions happen when I listen over days, then make a change.
Hi,
Back in the day when I got my first commercial junk amp along with the rest of my system they neglected to send me any speaker wire. So I just took some ~16 gauge copper junk I had laying around and used about six feet of that. Very disappointing.
Later on they send me some 12 gauge monster cable and that was much better.
I later upgraded that to 10 gauge monster cable and noticed it sounded very much the same for mids and highs only the bass was pounding harder than ever. I still use the same cables today, for lack of anything else.
So I believe they do make a difference but I dont' believe in $1000 "brand name" gimmick cable either.
I understand some of the best can be made with generic wire from home hardware. I might try that someday.
Regards,
Chris
Back in the day when I got my first commercial junk amp along with the rest of my system they neglected to send me any speaker wire. So I just took some ~16 gauge copper junk I had laying around and used about six feet of that. Very disappointing.
Later on they send me some 12 gauge monster cable and that was much better.
I later upgraded that to 10 gauge monster cable and noticed it sounded very much the same for mids and highs only the bass was pounding harder than ever. I still use the same cables today, for lack of anything else.
So I believe they do make a difference but I dont' believe in $1000 "brand name" gimmick cable either.
I understand some of the best can be made with generic wire from home hardware. I might try that someday.
Regards,
Chris
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