planet10 said:
I agree completely, but wouldn't the microphone ALSO be able to tell? Wouldn't we be reproducing these difference products TWICE if we reproduced the sub 20Khz products, and also the supersonic pre-mixed signals?
planet10 said:
More interesting in it's presentation, but nothing new has been revealed. The square wave generator with a low pass filter at it's output to limit bandwidth would certainly illustrate Fourier's theory admirably. I'm sure you also know far more about step functions, and "s" space transforms than I'll ever know, and they all apply as well!
planet10 said:
Looks like AM modulation to me. One picture is an evelope, and the other is spectrum analysis. What's the point?
planet10 said:
Meaning that it's a product introduced by just our ears?
That doesn't account for non-linear mixing of supersonic frequencies within the instrument itself, or due to the acoustic environment within which the recording is taking place.
If the mic is essentially our "virtual ears" in the recording environment, then anything we hear with our ears, would be heard by the mic -- no?
It is those claims (actual quote from a site that should remain nameless) that make me wonder:
1. why do I not hear those differences - when I can distinguish with 90% accuracy between two cartridges (shure made both), and
2. why, if the differences are as claimed, do they always vanish into the indistinguishable when the claimant is not able to see the cable?
I am awfully polite about that statement, ain't I?
We have now gone full circle for the 4th time.
I wonder, if we have on this thread someone able-minded and able-serial enough, whether it can be determined whether this thread is a divergent or convergent series (fractyl). and if hopefully the latter (otherwise hi-fi is a fettish lost in endo-destructive confusion), where in the X-Y-Z-T domain the final black hole will lie. Will it be an intelligent black hole
or annihilation 
, will it be .........aaargh!!!
I wonder, if we have on this thread someone able-minded and able-serial enough, whether it can be determined whether this thread is a divergent or convergent series (fractyl). and if hopefully the latter (otherwise hi-fi is a fettish lost in endo-destructive confusion), where in the X-Y-Z-T domain the final black hole will lie. Will it be an intelligent black hole
or annihilation , will it be .........aaargh!!!
Well I would like to throw this out there. I think the one part of the whole listening experience that is impossible to measure is the human brains reaction to what it hears. We know that we all have different ears, it is possible to measure what arrives at the ear, but after that? I am not even sure that the sound processed buy the brain is important but how that processing makes us feel. I know sometimes if I want a piece of equipiment to sound better most of the time it does, and I know if measured in some manner you could show me with a graph or plot that it is not, but it does to me. This thread will never provide a clear yes or no answer to the question that everyone will accept. But I sure have enjoyed reading all the posts, thanks to everyone!!
Dan
Dan
To ALL:In 480 years from now,when we will all be at the right age,Johan will ask me, Panicos do you remember that diy forum discusions?I'll say,REMEMBER????SY :Remember means to ''recall''....Macgyver10 intrrupts:''recoil''?Useless,you can't hear the difference.Don't get upset mac10 ok you can't hear it, but you can measure it or somewhere in the middle says Planet10.Now relax and enjoy Michael CATson.Then he was young and member of CATson5.Hunt the shunt comes in with a bag:hi guys I brought your placebos.What placebos,now that hearing anything is really paranormal,I cannot find Rhandi(Panomaniac)
What is worrying is that a large number of people really believe this stuff. Belief is the problem in many spheres of life since the human brain can be easily duped.
When any goods (snake oil?) are sold, a good does of scepticism backed up by scientific rigor would help to move us forward.
Placebos rule ok!
When any goods (snake oil?) are sold, a good does of scepticism backed up by scientific rigor would help to move us forward.
Placebos rule ok!
Panicos K said:
This is called a "strawman argument", Panicos K, you have innacurately defined the term "skeptic" so that it becomes easy to burn down (a strawman!).
In fact, what you have actually defined is a non-skeptic who turns to a "belief" system to feel better.
If you accept that what you hear can easily be "all in your head", as I do, then we actually have no argument.
I, as a skeptic, accept that I can be fooled. I can even be fooled by my own mind. There may even be very good evolutionary reasons for why this happens, and happens to all of us. That's why I turn to deductive reasoning, and science, to check my subjective results.
That doesn't mean that I'm not an emotional creature who can be moved deeply by music. You'd probably be surprised to know how many of the "arts" I am involved in. I don't even own a lab coat!
My approach to this forum has been to try and discuss the issue logically and without resorting to ad hominems and other weak debate tactics. I've also learned a few things useful along the way. Has it been a similar experience for you, or has it just been an exercise in frustration?
macgyver10,if I wasn't sure that I had something to learn from all of you,I would not be here and waste my and your time.I know the meaning of the word,but in hunt the shunt's post 1057 I felt that it was different,and it is to the way I received it from his post that I made my comment.One doesn't have to be very sceptic to be able to reject any salesman/manufacturer silly offerings.
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