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Old 8th November 2006, 05:02 AM   #1001
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dumbass
Lessee . . . viewed as part of the speaker, series resistance increases total resistance, but doesn't increase reactance (much).

Qe is ratio of resistance to reactance, so series resistance increases Qe, and therefore increases Qts.

Correct?

Correct,That's why I use tightly twisted 18awg enamel coated speaker wire with my low Qts Fostex FE126e OB speakers because the added series resistance raises the Qts making the FE126e more OB friendly in the bass.
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Old 8th November 2006, 06:22 AM   #1002
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Quote:
Originally posted by macgyver10
if the added DCR is the only reason for using such fine wire, then why not just add series resistance to the input of the speaker or output of the amp?

What is the "good effect"? and is it only the result of using 30-36g wire?
Alas we come full circle. Because the perception from comparing the 2, has the skinny cable sounding better than the fat cable with the resistor.

Sometimes the cable isn't enuff and you do have to add a resistor.

dave
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Old 8th November 2006, 06:26 AM   #1003
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Sorry Dave, i didn't understand that one.
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Old 8th November 2006, 06:47 AM   #1004
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Quote:
Originally posted by planet10


Alas we come full circle. Because the perception from comparing the 2, has the skinny cable sounding better than the fat cable with the resistor.

Sometimes the cable isn't enuff and you do have to add a resistor.

dave
Yeah, I'm not sure I "get it".

I'll accept that you hear a difference. And that difference is subjectively perceived to be an "improvement", but I don't understand what, other than the DCR, the skinny wire is doing?

Whatever it IS doing, it seems it would make more sense to just build it into the speaker in the first place.

Or have I completely missed something here? It could be I'm just missing the fun of doing it, I guess...which is a perfectly valid reason as any -- it just doesn't do much for me.
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Old 8th November 2006, 06:49 AM   #1005
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In the system in which it was used, skinny cable sounded better than fat cable + R, as judged by listener's ear.

Did it really sound better, or was it just the listener(s) perception?

At least in this case we have a simplicity argument -- a nice continuous monofiliment, vrs a cable + a resitor (with its internal construction, and a pair of lead out wires) + an extra solder joint)

dave
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Old 8th November 2006, 08:48 AM   #1006
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Folks,

I don't get it. Even after a good night's sleep.

Here we are, analysing what has previously been pointed out to affect some 0,2 - 0,4 dB difference maximum in audio response (I did not notice anybody challenge that). Let us just "listen" to ourselves! Does it matter whether this is "in the cable, inductive, capacitive, acting at the amplifier end/speaker end, silver/gold affected, the-torsion-of-the-terminal affected, knot-in-the-cable affected, what/where-ever else unperfected?

There seems to be a dedication here that minute cable differences must make a difference, even if basic electronics have to be twisted out of it's sockets to serve that end. [Loudspeaker research of the reliable kind (e.g. The Vance Dickason Cookbooks, among many other authoritative works) absolutely refute this, but never mind.]

Could we perhaps get in touch with reality a little more, also recognising that what is audible and what not, has been characterised abundantly by controlled research tests? [Thus also I hope to be excused for not accepting with open arms this or that audible revelation experienced at someone's coffee table after a long day's work, that WX cable sounded dramatically different from YZ brand, thus it is suddenly elevated to dogma. That does not constitute proof in the light of established research.]

Kindly Yours.
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Old 8th November 2006, 09:03 AM   #1007
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Quote:
Originally posted by Johan Potgieter
(e.g. The Vance Dickason Cookbooks, among many other authoritative works)
This book, while filled with some very good information (and some bad), has a decided bias, and i would not consider it authoritive. (mind you i haven't seen the last 2 editions)

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Old 8th November 2006, 11:41 AM   #1008
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The newest one is out. You ought to get it. Much more info on transmission lines.
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Old 8th November 2006, 02:25 PM   #1009
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Quote:
Originally posted by SY
Much more info on transmission lines.
Does it bring up King & Augspurger? ML-TLs?

dave
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Old 8th November 2006, 03:20 PM   #1010
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Default Cable stuff...

Hi all,

Reading the thread, I came to the following conclusion:

The speaker cable is doing 3 things:

1. is a transmissionline to the speaker and delivers the amplified voiltage and current also defined by the resistance and reactive components of the cable

2. Is an integral part of the power supply, amplifier circuitry and loudspeakers and filter

3. Provides feedback to the amplifier via the feedback loop. (in most amplifier designs)

From my own experience I found that different cables conneected to a feedback amplifier makes way more of a difference than the same range of cables to a non-feedback design.

(there is virtually no difference between a 0,34mm2 and a 25mm2 cable when I connect my elipsons to my X1000, There is a BIG difference if I use my Holton AV400 amp) You all guessed right...the X1000 has practically no feedback.

So here is my line of thinking: The speaker's are connected to the amplifier via a cross-over. This cross over has a complex impedance. Therefor the feedback voltage of the loudspeakers (created by the CURRENT through the coils) is out of phase with the original signal send off by the amplifier into the cable.
The cable changes the phase relation going to the speakers as well as the feedback signal going back to the amplifier.

Therefore im my view, it is not so much the cable that triggers a different perseption, it is however the cable in combination with the amplifirer design and its sensitivity to voltage current phase relation that defines how the "cable" sounds.

I would be interested to hear what you think about this ...
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